Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-23T13:50:49+02:00

Can't remove the hover as you may imagine for balance reasons.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when it comes to land you don't really see spam of mobile shields , 50+ , right ? Usually you see 10, 20 at max. Therefore an adjustement to the power according to the number of shields won't affect it that much when it can actually solve the problem of the bubble wars.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 23 Apr 2012, 13:50

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-23T13:43:54+02:00

-_V_- wrote:
Well I am fairly certain we can make a distinction between fixed and mobile shield .

Fixed shields are fine. Mobile shields on land are fine. Mobile shields on water aren't fine. Spot the odd one out - it isn't "mobile shields".

Either change something about navy to make them able to deal with mass shields, or just remove hover from them. Preferably the former so UEF doesn't lol over every other navy.

Statistics: Posted by Yaotzin — 23 Apr 2012, 13:43

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-23T10:56:59+02:00

Well I am fairly certain we can make a distinction between fixed and mobile shield .

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 23 Apr 2012, 10:56

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-23T10:46:18+02:00

I don't think it's been demonstrated that shields are a problem, bar the one case of mass mobile shields covering navies. That case is really a navy problem though - they have low DPS and a lack of AOE. Don't gut shields to fix a navy problem.

Statistics: Posted by Yaotzin — 23 Apr 2012, 10:46

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-23T09:10:24+02:00

what about making the shields recharging actually cost extra energy? double the energydrain while recharging?

or recharging of mobile shields only while standing still?

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 23 Apr 2012, 09:10

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-23T07:15:23+02:00

I hardly see massive static shielding as a problem because if the room they take, and the problems you can have to pack them considering the relief/landscape of the map. Plus as being said, they are static, so go hit somewhere else. You can't realistically cover your whole base with enough shield to counter everything unless the map configuration makes it quite closed (thermo crap ? ^^)

Massive shielding is a problem when they are mobile, yes I'm thinking of navy.

May I re-suggest the incremental increase of the energy required by the shields following the number that you have ?

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 23 Apr 2012, 07:15

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-22T13:47:04+02:00

but better that than alternative that is shield spams and useless siege weapons

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 22 Apr 2012, 13:47

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-22T13:43:13+02:00

noobymcnoobcake wrote:
FunkOff wrote:We could also try the shield-interference script I wrote... that causes shield recharge time to increase based upon how many other shield generators it was covering. 1 Shield would not have any difference by itself, but a shield covering 6 other shields would experience a 5 x 20% = 100% recharge time penalty.

yep, that makes T2 shields still useful and stops them being exponentially harder to kill, 100% agree with this script. It is also a buff to siege weapons which I like. T3 artry are NOT weak against structures only shields.once they broke your shields its over very quick.

but it is very complicated to explain to a new player.

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 22 Apr 2012, 13:43

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-22T07:29:40+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
We could also try the shield-interference script I wrote... that causes shield recharge time to increase based upon how many other shield generators it was covering. 1 Shield would not have any difference by itself, but a shield covering 6 other shields would experience a 5 x 20% = 100% recharge time penalty.

yep, that makes T2 shields still useful and stops them being exponentially harder to kill, 100% agree with this script. It is also a buff to siege weapons which I like. T3 artry are NOT weak against structures only shields.once they broke your shields its over very quick.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 22 Apr 2012, 07:29

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-21T21:22:53+02:00

We could also try the shield-interference script I wrote... that causes shield recharge time to increase based upon how many other shield generators it was covering. 1 Shield would not have any difference by itself, but a shield covering 6 other shields would experience a 5 x 20% = 100% recharge time penalty.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 21 Apr 2012, 21:22

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-21T17:53:38+02:00

Jace wrote:
Kryo wrote:i made a post earlier, but it didnt show up?
what I wrote:
Reduce shield hp and cost by the same factor.
=> same hp per cost ratio
=> but also same build space needed => less shield hp per area, but same shield hp per ressources spent.

actually that could be seen as a buff for moving units. would only really affect static shields.
as you can have more and messing up loosing a few doesnt hurt as much

yeah this of course is only good for static shields
mobile shields just need a nerf in hp.

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 21 Apr 2012, 17:53

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-21T16:29:56+02:00

Kryo wrote:
i made a post earlier, but it didnt show up?
what I wrote:
Reduce shield hp and cost by the same factor.
=> same hp per cost ratio
=> but also same build space needed => less shield hp per area, but same shield hp per ressources spent.

actually that could be seen as a buff for moving units. would only really affect static shields.
as you can have more and messing up loosing a few doesnt hurt as much

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 21 Apr 2012, 16:29

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-21T16:25:32+02:00

i made a post earlier, but it didnt show up?

what I wrote:

Reduce shield hp and cost by the same factor.

=> same hp per cost ratio

=> but also same build space needed => less shield hp per area, but same shield hp per ressources spent.

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 21 Apr 2012, 16:25

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-21T16:13:03+02:00

It's not a "weaker" shields suggestion. It's a weaker shield recharge! If you want to have your shield online you can do so at any time. Just turn it off and on and it will appear immediately with the HP it already has recharged. Trippling the recharge (200 HP/s)time would still be 150 HP/s more then the regeneration (55-60 HP/s) when it's online.

Assuming that Air snipes are favored by this is just an Assumption. If someone throws 30 T2 Cybran bomber at you and you only have one shield and no air, it doesn't matter how long your recharge is. You're still going to die. Volley damage is the key to a snipe against shields, not consistent DPS. Or do you really see that many T2 gunships snipes when theres 2 T2 AA underneath a shield?

Also the Navy shield is a LATE game issue. Theres nothing you could change without heavily impacting mid game. I guess its okay if you look at it from such an perspective. It's nonetheless an issue imo.

Statistics: Posted by Pavese — 21 Apr 2012, 16:13

Re: Shields, shields everywhere!

2012-04-21T15:25:54+02:00

i am happy with it

shields have to be good, otherwise the whole game would be *only* about finding the commander and sniping him.

on top of that your problem again only applies to games with house rules, or to games with certain maps and overly big maps.
Yes! Setons and the likes are overly big maps! designed for lategamers. dont come and complain about games on maps in that category!

play smaller maps if you dont want shields to become an issue. and play with yourself if you want T3 and T4 to be exactly the same gameplay as T1 and T2!
sorry if that sounds rude!

someone who is turtling with shields on one spot and wins has done something thats very hard on a average map, as he looses much recources while giving the enemy map control. if its a map with a very important spot and you loose because your enemy is turtling on that spot, its your own fault for being too weak, too slow, to hold him off from turtling there.
sorry if that sounds rude too!

as to complaining about too much shield boats: I will give you a somewhat extreme comparison how i see the case: do you complain if you get shredded by a mavor? do you complain if you get sniped by 10 T2bombers?
so why do you complain if you let your enemy get 10shieldboats + ships for damage into the water? when you know that someone has a weak early game navy but a very hard to deal late mid and lategame navy, why do you let it come to that?
nerv shield boats? why not nerving radar stealth boats? why not nerving T2subs?

if you can't deal with properly microed shield boats you will cry about properly microed aeon hover shields next and properly microed sera hover shields after that.
and as cybran: build stealth boats, and dish out T2cruisers, care for a sonar so you have intel. then pressure the enemy so he cant build up an overwhelming force while staying out of range. every faction can only fall to its knees before that.
if you still loose your enemy was simply the better player in water.

the only thing i agree on is that cybrans have too stupid shield gameplay for their static shields. they should be able to directly build their lategame shields, like the other factions too. because upping them takes too much time if your are a eco-lategame-houserules-player.

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 21 Apr 2012, 15:25