Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-31T05:01:14+02:00

So, here's my take on fobos: They're a faction-specific advantage, and considering the faction they are making advantageous, they are perfectly balanced.

While Seraphim has been pretty well balanced by the FaF balance team, they are still crawling out of the dark hole they were originally in. They don't have the same quirky strategy associated with other factions primarily because they're still new, and if 'spam' must characterize their T1 land, so be it.

They are like what the Mercy is to the Aeon, what the Salem class and Deceiver are to the Cybrans, and what the Percy and (in vanilla) the Titan and T3 Gunship were to the UEF. They add some uniqueness to the Seraphim, even if it is a tad stale.

Statistics: Posted by MushrooMars — 31 May 2012, 05:01

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-25T14:02:42+02:00

It can be both used as floating lobo as well as Fervor/Lobo combination. The Fobo has all of these perks.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 25 May 2012, 14:02

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-25T13:49:42+02:00

I thought it was "Floating Lobo"...

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 25 May 2012, 13:49

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-22T11:30:10+02:00

pls, just watch my replay and tell me, what can you do as a UEF/Cybran against Aurora/Fobo spam on a small water map like this? All your nice suggestions were used, but didnt work, the spam is just too fast and too cheap to counter on certain maps.

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 22 May 2012, 11:30

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-22T09:33:50+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
-_V_- wrote:We tested auroras/sera arties.

I always thought those arties , equal mass, owned auroras, well they don't. Range is better but their mobility is not good enough to counterbalance the auroras. in small numbers, arties can more or less win, but the more auroras you have, ...well you can guess.

btw, why do people keep calling those sera arties by a wrong name , "fobos" ? Does it stand for flying-lobos ?
Their name is Zthuee

I think you take the problem the wrong way. The fobos have a minimal range. That's mean that you don't want to kite/avoid the shots, but get in contact and bump them. They will not be able fire back.

A frigate can kill an infinite amount of fobos without taking any damage that way. Fobos are in fact very ineffective on any water map. Auroras are way more effective.

Hum no, same idea. Even using the best range, the arties lose 'cause the way they retreat is too slow and choppy to counter the smoother mobility of the auroras.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 22 May 2012, 09:33

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-22T09:21:49+02:00

-_V_- wrote:
We tested auroras/sera arties.

I always thought those arties , equal mass, owned auroras, well they don't. Range is better but their mobility is not good enough to counterbalance the auroras. in small numbers, arties can more or less win, but the more auroras you have, ...well you can guess.

btw, why do people keep calling those sera arties by a wrong name , "fobos" ? Does it stand for flying-lobos ?
Their name is Zthuee

I think you take the problem the wrong way. The fobos have a minimal range. That's mean that you don't want to kite/avoid the shots, but get in contact and bump them. They will not be able fire back.

A frigate can kill an infinite amount of fobos without taking any damage that way. Fobos are in fact very ineffective on any water map. Auroras are way more effective.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 22 May 2012, 09:21

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-22T09:15:23+02:00

noone will mix labs into his army. and on a land fight i guess noone will just spam fobos. so a few tanks will eat up all labs.
the problem on paradise or four corners is when u face a aoen/sera combo. if your factions is uef/cybran u will have troubles. u will need to rush navy or get some t2 pds to defend the outer mexes. navy rush could be too late if there is a early fobo there and t2 pds could be overrun - so u need a huge amount of it to prevent that and this gives u a hugh drawback in the eco race.
well u can say "use air" - hm, sera and aoen can use air too it is no big advantage. sera/aoen just need to focus on defensive air (just interceptors) whereas the others will need bombers or jesters which cost more.

i dont think that fobos r imba. on such sea maps i would rush navy and hope to get a frigate out before the first auroas/fobos scum arrives.

Statistics: Posted by Batmansrueckkehr — 22 May 2012, 09:15

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-22T06:11:55+02:00

We tested auroras/sera arties.

I always thought those arties , equal mass, owned auroras, well they don't. Range is better but their mobility is not good enough to counterbalance the auroras. in small numbers, arties can more or less win, but the more auroras you have, ...well you can guess.

btw, why do people keep calling those sera arties by a wrong name , "fobos" ? Does it stand for flying-lobos ?
Their name is Zthuee

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 22 May 2012, 06:11

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-22T00:45:36+02:00

Fobos, like many things, are powerful primarily because no one puts much effort into unit control. The sooner people (in the general sense) start realizing that the game is a Real Time Strategy game and treating it as such, the better off they will be - the perfect land counter to T1 arty spam is a few micro'd LABs, which will massacre any amount of arty.

Is this micro necessity a bad thing? I don't think so. Just as you wouldn't leave an ACU to walk in a straight line against a few arty, you should invest your attention to where it will make the most impact - such as micro'ing tanks and LABs to fight arty.

For what it's worth, I play Seraphim primarily because of this advantage that Fobos give you, for precisely this reason: few people put effort into unit control. Being able to traverse water is a slight, map-dependent bonus as well; I definitely would not say that it is stronger than the Aurora, however, as a properly micro'd Aurora can an infinite number of opposing T1 tanks, while a T1 arty's slower reaction time and less precise weapon makes this much more difficult.

If fobos are overwhelmingly effective due to their ability to traverse water, I would say that it is primarily due to the map's faction imbalance - maps such as Paradise and Four Corners were removed from the ranked map pool for exactly this reason, as Aeon and Seraphim simply had an incredible advantage on them when facing UEF or Cybran. (well, another faction having an advantage over Cybran isn't surprising, but I digress...)

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 22 May 2012, 00:45

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-22T00:05:32+02:00

Dude, did you read anything I wrote? How many times did I talk about terrain features..
Ofc on open maps with room to move and the right unit its slaughter...

Pls dont post a replay of open palms next with tanks owning them.

Statistics: Posted by Crayfish — 22 May 2012, 00:05

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-21T23:01:13+02:00

Ok I post replay of frigates vs fobos. Open waters 1v1. Very little micro required. On water maps you will not win vs skilled players without navy, so your idea of needing frigates to counter them is redundant. The only advantage frigates have over fobos on sea is buildtime.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 21 May 2012, 23:01

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-21T22:37:42+02:00

I think maybe you guys are seeing my points in a little to black and white terms. The best analogy I can think of is with peoples complaints about 'Bomber First' strat (Im not against bombers as they are btw), in that you are often forced into a costly and time consuming countermeasure if you get caught with it. Sure it easy to micro whatever counter direct fire unit you have, but you have to have the right counter unit (sea, land, air) built to do so. Alot of my complaints stem from early fobos when you may only have one of the possible unit types built available. Fobos come out of a land fac that people almost always have right away, so unlike 'Bomber First', you arent having to invest in a specialised build, but you are getting the versatility to go anywhere you want. If I get hit with the fobos, on my island edges, I can only chase them to the waters edge unless I have land and sea or air, and even then I have to have the right unit built to get at them from whatever my second factory is (fighters and subs are of no use for instance). Factor in some terrain features like cliff edges and ridges, and the fobos have an even greater advantage. I guess you could say that if I scouted better this wouldnt be such a problem, but that goes for everything.

I guess I am alone on this one, so will have to put it down to being a deficiency of mine rather than a balance / design philosophy issue (I think the disproportionate number of Sera players on FAF, and the fact I play allot of mid / small sized combined arms maps may also be affecting my perception), but I felt I needed to further define my position.

Statistics: Posted by Crayfish — 21 May 2012, 22:37

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-21T22:11:12+02:00

Hit the nail on the head there^^

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 21 May 2012, 22:11

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-21T20:25:20+02:00

I don't think you need micro en masse to beat T1 arty. A simple shift-click 20X will suffice and have your frigate/tank/LAB with 10+ kills (each) in a T1 arty (only) swarm.

The point is that if you're getting beaten by T1 fobo spam and ONLY t1 fobo spam, you need to work on your micro (even just a little). Moreover, an undefended T1 pd is worthless.

Statistics: Posted by SJAndrew — 21 May 2012, 20:25

Re: Fobo spam

2012-05-20T18:53:35+02:00

Its Rambonia

Statistics: Posted by Jace — 20 May 2012, 18:53