Forged Alliance Forever

Re: So... Do fire beetles not suck yet?

2012-05-31T10:50:32+02:00

Did you even read it? This thread, even if it was made first, would be the same. Spamming new threads about stuff does not help anyone and will not make things change faster.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 31 May 2012, 10:50

Re: So... Do fire beetles not suck yet?

2012-05-31T02:34:45+02:00

noobymcnoobcake wrote:
http://www.faforever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1176&start=0
please use search function before making new thread.

This was more of a question than a brainstorming thread. I want to know what the opinions are on firebeetles.

Statistics: Posted by MushrooMars — 31 May 2012, 02:34

Re: So... Do fire beetles not suck yet?

2012-05-30T10:42:59+02:00

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1176&start=0
please use search function before making new thread.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 30 May 2012, 10:42

Re: So... Do fire beetles not suck yet?

2012-05-30T08:28:00+02:00

firebeetles are great like they are. i had 8 bricks and 10 loylists. a monkeylord came and i spammed additional firebeetles. they helped a lot to kick this thing faster.
sometimes i could stop a fully upgraded seraphim acu with them. rushing with tanks in his army and then try to hide within your own units to hit him.

if they would not hit each other. they would be imba.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 30 May 2012, 08:28

So... Do fire beetles not suck yet?

2012-05-30T06:04:44+02:00

I have yet to try them again (as I haven't player FaF in several months) but are they better yet? Can I just go shotgun on ACU's and drop a swarm of fire beetles on people's faces (just like the mercy)?

Or are they still in that little corner along with negligible cost efficiency and damage, and blowing themselves up by accident?

And if they have yet to be patched, may I suggest no friendly fire, OR EMP, OR personal stealth OR personal cloak? Not a combinations, just one of these.

And please don't start an apeshit war because my suggestions are moot, I don't want to leave again.

Statistics: Posted by MushrooMars — 30 May 2012, 06:04

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-10T21:34:50+02:00

Kryo wrote:
Pavese wrote:Giving them cloak wouldn't be a prob as a simple scout could detect them. Giving them both would make the amazingly OP.

And the blow up by hotkey thing should be implemented. Oh god pls.

But tbh i dont like the ACU assassination nature of it. Why not make it a anti shield unit with a small EMP death blow?

cloak the beetles, and support them with some units and a deceiver = pwnage.

Exactly, 100% this. Would love to see them used in regular battles.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 10 May 2012, 21:34

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-10T14:33:54+02:00

Pavese wrote:
Giving them cloak wouldn't be a prob as a simple scout could detect them. Giving them both would make the amazingly OP.

And the blow up by hotkey thing should be implemented. Oh god pls.

But tbh i dont like the ACU assassination nature of it. Why not make it a anti shield unit with a small EMP death blow?

cloak the beetles, and support them with some units and a deceiver = pwnage.

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 10 May 2012, 14:33

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-10T13:58:55+02:00

Giving the cloak is a great idea. I realy dot like the anti shield idea paverse as it will not help cybran all that much because of all the micro required. Also as they are so high prioroty targets i doubt they will ever be able to get in range of shields. Give them cloak, a detonate button, slughtly more range and slightly more AOE.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 10 May 2012, 13:58

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-10T12:03:43+02:00

Giving them cloak wouldn't be a prob as a simple scout could detect them. Giving them both would make the amazingly OP.

And the blow up by hotkey thing should be implemented. Oh god pls.

But tbh i dont like the ACU assassination nature of it. Why not make it a anti shield unit with a small EMP death blow?

Statistics: Posted by Pavese — 10 May 2012, 12:03

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-08T23:16:29+02:00

While perhaps fun for a mod, I don't think messing with stealth or cloak is appropriate for the standard game. I'd just like to see the range and AE numbers tweaked so they work like they are supposed to -- as fast mobile bombs.

Statistics: Posted by Doompants — 08 May 2012, 23:16

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-08T18:04:35+02:00

I think sorian made a mod that gave them stealth and cloak when not moving. Dont know how this would play out in game though. Was on vault so now there is probably a link to it in GPG forums. Still I think the best fix is more range and AOE so it can actually hit stuff.

EDIT, uploaded it here

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 08 May 2012, 18:04

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-08T17:58:19+02:00

I say, remove the autoattack feature to eliminate headaches with weapon ranges.
Can we do the above but still keep attack-ground functionality?
Give them a hotkey to blow up manually.

Then play with stats until they're viable & balanced.

The one change that might be fun is cloak/stealth when stationary

Rather than compare them to Mercies, let's compare them to TMLs.

Statistics: Posted by AdmiralZeech — 08 May 2012, 17:58

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-08T17:17:43+02:00

Firebeatles in 4DC use a dummy weapon that allows them to automatically chase down enemy units. Once in range they'll detonate but unlike the FA standard units, they don't inflict FF damage. Hence they can be used in mass and set to patrol a given area, inflicting massive amounts of casualties upon enemy units in their path.

Note: Last time i checked we added visual stealth to them and a detonate button as well.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 08 May 2012, 17:17

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-08T08:31:27+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
Pip, I've done a small test and (this might be just nitpicking) but firebeetles actually do self destruct at factories. They don't when attacking a paragon or Quantum gate though (the largest structures in the game). It got me to think that a maximum radius of 4 could be enough.

I had missed this post till Doompants quoted it. And Doompants is correct all the way.

I tested the unit a lot, and it depends on the direction the Firebeetles come from. Maximum range of 4 almost fixes the issue, except if you send your Firebeetle from the south east, or some other direction it doesn't like : the firebeetle will still turn around the target and it means it will die before achieving its goal (for instance, damaging a t2 factory).

The smallest range that seems to work consistently, with Firebeetles walking very slightly around but detonating quick enough is 4.5. But even then, if you keep the DamageRadius at 3, small structures like mex won't be caught in the explosion, you need to increase the AOE to 3.2. So wether it's range 5 / 3.25 AOE, or 4.5 range / 3.2 AOE, it's the same idea, with almost the same results : a small change in the stats of the firebeetle so that it can work consistently against all targets types. And of course, it works better against moving targets too, since it can detonate when there is another unit between the target and the beetle, preventing it to try to move around all units all the time (but if there are more units blocking the way, it still cannot get to the target unless you blow what's in the way first).

Another solution, as I explained in my first post, that can be chosen instead or added at the same time, is a self detonate button, so that you can manually explode your unit if it begins to act weird. It's also in the mod and works well.
It requires more micro if you keep the stat of the unit as they are, but it can really make it usable against bigger structures, which is the least you can expect from any attacking unit in the game.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 08 May 2012, 08:31

Re: Firebeetles improvements

2012-05-08T08:11:54+02:00

Yes. This is also the same against fatboys. 100% agree with this ^^

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 08 May 2012, 08:11