Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-11T16:58:20+02:00

I think I missed something in the first place. Is Aeon T2 torp bomber the best of all? If all torp bombers have immunity for their torpedoes, how is Aeon better? If it's better statwise, I agree, Aeon do not need to have the best torp bomber of all, since they already have one of the best, if not the best T2 navy + T3 torp bomber.

It would indeed be better, and add faction diversity, to give Seraphim the best t2 torp bomber, that's for sure. But same would apply in my opinion to their t2 gunship : slightly stronger because they have no t1 nor ghetto, nor t3 gunship. I like this kind of slight diversity for Seraphim : less units but a little bit stronger, or sometimes with multiple purposes (that's why I think the Restorer would fit them better, but this was merely a joke, it's out of question to give it to Seraphim, even if it would make a lot of sense).

EDIT: I got what you mean now, sorry for being slow.
You mean Aeon has +++ T2 navy and ++ torp bomber.
Cybran and UEF have ++ T2 navy and ++ torp bomber.
Seraphim have rather + T2 navy and + torp bombers.
So you want to make Aeon have +++ T2 navy and + torp bomber and Sera +T2 navy and ++ torp bomber.

It makes sense (but Sera would still need a + somewhere at t2 sea, because they also have - t2 hover tank )

Statistics: Posted by pip — 11 Oct 2011, 16:58

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-11T16:40:12+02:00

First, i dont like that GPG argument, GPG indented a lot things wich were proven wrong and many other things we dont know if they were indented or not. If GPG just forgot to make the sera torp bomber correctly, but it will improve the gameplay to keep him like that, its not wise to change it.

Secondly, all changes should have this two main goals imho: first balancing, then faction deversity and gameplay improvement. Just fixing the sera torp bomber will increase the balancing (imho) but reduce the faction deversity. I would rather increase/fix the balance until it is as good as possible and keep the faction deversity how it is. The next step would be to increase the faction deversity without reducing the balancing.

My concern is more that if every faction has this immunity, why would there be only one with this weakness?

Because it is boring when all have just the same units. GPG may not have this intended but i like when units are different for each factions.

Giving the restorers to sera is another topic, and this would not add faction deversity overall but just move the deversity of one faction to another. Moving restorers to sera would require a new model and a good reason. Sera can be otherweise buffed if needed, and the torp bomber suggest could be a part of it.

I fear if we just buff the sera torp bomber but not nerf aeon in exchange we reduce faction deversity and wont get that back, because a nerf to aeon torp bomber alone for no real reason (its not imba or something, and sadly people dont try to balance a faction overall but just single units) wont be accepted.

I also didnt heared any real gameplay arguments why the aeon torp bomber shouldnt be nerfed. Only "community arguments".

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 11 Oct 2011, 16:40

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-11T15:19:06+02:00

I agree... in a first step I simply would fix the sera t2 bomber, and make it work like any other faction's bomber, and leave aeon the way it is.

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 11 Oct 2011, 15:19

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-11T15:30:52+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
pip, obviously we wouldn't actually switch the units so seraphim builds Aeon torp bomber and Aeon builds Seraphim one. That's nonsense. All this change would entail is making the Serpahim torp bomber weapon immune to torpedo defense and removing that immunity from the Aeon torp bomber weapon.

Good; the title of the thread could be misleading.

Still, I wonder about this idea. If Aeon were the only faction with that advantage, it would be normal to switch this advantage to the less efficient faction. My concern is more that if every faction has this immunity, why would there be only one with this weakness?
I certainly don't think GPG did it on purpose thinking "Seraphim would be too strong otherwise"
I think it's something they simply overlooked. So is it wise to base an adjustment to something that was overlooked in the first place?

On a side note, as far as faction diversity is concerned, I would definitely prefer the Restorer to belong to Seraphim (because they have a so-so T2 gunship, neither T3 gunships nor T3 torp bomber). But I assume Aeon players would be pissed to give their specific unit to the faction for which it would make more sense to have. Just thinking (fooling) aloud here.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 11 Oct 2011, 15:06

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-11T12:12:41+02:00

pip, obviously we wouldn't actually switch the units so seraphim builds Aeon torp bomber and Aeon builds Seraphim one. That's nonsense. All this change would entail is making the Serpahim torp bomber weapon immune to torpedo defense and removing that immunity from the Aeon torp bomber weapon.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 11 Oct 2011, 12:12

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-11T07:32:25+02:00

Zock, your goal is great, and it's a good idea. But:

1) it has to be decided if the Seraphim torp bomber was not a mistake on GPG's part. It seems odd to me that it's the only faction with a torp bomber working less efficiently than the other three (if i understand you well).

2) it would be awkward to just "switch the units". The Aeon desgin and Seraphim design have nothing to do with one another. And Aeon have a T3 torp bomber that looks a lot like big t2 ones. Besides, Seraphim torp weapons have a very cool and unique look. So if ever you change something, it must be the attributes of the weapons and not switch entire unit. It would look amateurish and would mislead former players, etc.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 11 Oct 2011, 07:32

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-10T21:17:58+02:00

Less faction deversity for no reason. If we care for a factions "community" we cant nerf anything. Nerfs will always make some people complain, even sera regenfield and restorer nerf. And the number of players playing a faction are no reason not to nerf anything. They will live with it, if they notice it at all. My goal is not to make everyone happy but to make a better and more interesting balance.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 10 Oct 2011, 21:17

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-10-10T18:23:52+02:00

What about giving Seraphim torp bomber the same weapon as the Aeon one (or same attribute) without making all the aeon community cry in despair? The idea is great, but you don't want to alienate a part of the community. And i believe Aeon palyers are more numerous than Seraphim ones.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 10 Oct 2011, 18:23

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-09-27T10:01:17+02:00

and what sera t2 navy do against other navy?, just dont go t2? skip it and go t3? with the risk it take?

Statistics: Posted by Isen — 27 Sep 2011, 10:01

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-09-27T01:46:13+02:00

cybran navy owns aeon at t2. especially if you try to micro as an aeon player. The hovershields do save the day later on, but against a good t2 cybran player aeon has no chance. This change will make sure that the seton community won't ever switch over to FAF, which might be the case already.

Statistics: Posted by TA4Life — 27 Sep 2011, 01:46

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-09-25T14:15:30+02:00

I think it's fine as it is.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 25 Sep 2011, 14:15

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-09-25T11:10:34+02:00

agreed

Statistics: Posted by Isen — 25 Sep 2011, 11:10

Re: Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-09-24T20:58:53+02:00

This change would be a simple one to make.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 24 Sep 2011, 20:58

Switch the Aeon / Sera T2 Torp Bomber

2011-09-24T20:55:41+02:00

The reason for that idea is not the torp bomber itself but the overall balancing at t2 air and navy. Sera got a disadvantage at T2 sea now, they also got the weaker T2 hovertanks and the only torp bomber wich can be interrupted by anti torp. However they got the best t3 navy and i think its a nice deversity that the t2 navy is weaker then others. They also got t3 hover shields and t2 hover flak. But you could say, and i agree here, sera is a bit weaker then the other factions overall.

Aeon got a very good T2 navy with hover shields, flak and overall good sea units. They have maybe the strongest T2 Navy of all factions and are maybe overall the best faction with some strenghts but few weaknesses.

Making the Aeon torp bomber the one wich torpedos can be interrupted by anti torp instead of the Sera one would buff the sera counter abitllity to t2 navy a bit while taking from aeon a little advantage they dont really need there. Its not a big change but good for both faction balancing, aeon and sera imo.

What do you think?

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 24 Sep 2011, 20:55