Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T19:24:06+02:00

Resties should not be included in any discussions about 3599, since they were banned from good players games.

I actually think making the t3 sam cheaper is good adjustment. This makes the t3 acu drop better.

Statistics: Posted by TA4Life — 31 Oct 2011, 19:24

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T18:55:12+02:00

Sams wont stop bommbers making one pass and if thats 10 bommbers at your acu well then thats gg. T3 Air can kill land and navy cost effectivley and the only thing it cant kill cost effectivley is bases and it should remain like that. In 3599 sams were useless. Your base could easily be flattened by a bunch of restorers no matter how much AA you had. Its good now that air is usefull for harassing stuff and killing lightly defended positions and then retreating not leveling heavily defended AA fortresses. Its also good that T3 air cost more energy so people cant rush it quite so fast. Now you need the extra T2 pgen and if your going to spam asf T3 pgens are required.

On large maps air is not an option but a necesity and on smaller maps (isis) its a nice thing to have but you can defend your base with 30 mobile flack and 5 sams.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 31 Oct 2011, 18:55

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T11:57:18+02:00

Was made cheaper (by GPG) because it has no advantage over the mobile one.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 31 Oct 2011, 11:57

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T11:53:36+02:00

Oh crap, it's the static ones that are cheaper. I thought it was the mobile flaks.
Sorry I can't read

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 31 Oct 2011, 11:53

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T11:44:30+02:00

t2 air is still very useful, especially early on. The threat of it will force people to make flakks, which means your allies can focus on land. Drops are still VERY underused, and are granted slightly more power in 360x due to not being able to spam out the ASFs so much, meaning only Aeon has anything that is faster than a t2 transport.
Yes, flakks are cheaper, but they are static, as are sams, so you can still drop wherever you like.

Statistics: Posted by Gowerly — 31 Oct 2011, 11:44

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T11:22:18+02:00

The idea is great but there's still one problem : you need to make a t3 factory just for the sake of building t3 eng....when on the other side you can have a t2 eng building the stations / hives

Did you guys ever consider enabling t3 engies to build t3 engies ?

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 31 Oct 2011, 11:22

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T11:10:54+02:00

It was a change done by GPG actually.
I think the purpose was to give aeon and sera something to compete in the assist area.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 31 Oct 2011, 11:10

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T10:40:50+02:00

I could have kept several replays where complete air superiority didn't prevent epic loss, but first I didn't keep them and second, it has to do with the map (Size, water or not).

I would agree that on a small-medium size map with no water, t3 air is all that matters.

But that's where the naval changes the whole thing and bring balance / dynamism to it especially when it's shielded and supported by flaks.
It''s actually one of the main reasons i like setons (and island zero and mezmerize island ). Its size and configuration make that you usually cannot win by using only one part of the game / units unless teams are very imbalanced of course.

BTW, was it an intentional change to make t3 eng an alternative to hives/stations ?
If so I really like the idea but in the end you still require a t3 factory to spam the t3 eng which can be a big pb.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 31 Oct 2011, 10:40

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T10:12:41+02:00

Hypothetically, maybe.
But I didn't saw more static games than 3599 so far.

I think that's because in 3599, air was so predominant that you don't want to make anything else than that, and mostly don't want to go out of your base with T3 or T4.

But if you have replays that prove the opposite, you are free to post them.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 31 Oct 2011, 10:12

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T09:50:19+02:00

I just tested one of my build for t3 air. I got less asf than usual, but only like 20% less. (I would have expected a lot more before the test).

But the other concern i have is the AA being too effective. In 3599 it's already viable in some cases to just turtle with shields, FLAKS well placed and SAMS, then spam nukes or even get game ender.

Now that both flaks (which are very effcient against t3 air, i wont even talk of the damages on t2 air hehe), SAMS are much cheaper, they are in the end much more efficient and I'm afraid encourage turtling and less dynamic games (less comm snipes, less nuke def sniped, other unexpected game turn arounds).

Furthermore, naval was already quite hard to counter if not going naval. Now with the buff of FLAKS, the nerf of t3 air and the buff of cruisers AA, it seems that naval has become the real deal. It seems that getting shielded navy with flaks is now an autowin solution .

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 31 Oct 2011, 09:50

Re: Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T09:22:47+02:00

No, the air is still really powerful, but it's not the "must-do" unit anymore.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 31 Oct 2011, 09:22

Does t2/t3 air still have any influence ?

2011-10-31T09:07:01+02:00

I was reading on the wiki the changes from 3599 to 3608 (the wiki doesnt seem to include 3609 changes).

And among other things, I noticed some very disturbing changes :

T2 Anti-Air Flak Artillery
Reduced mass and energy cost by 30%

T3 SAMs costs reduced significantly from 1400M 12000E to 800M 8000E

T3 Air Factory energy cost increased (72000). Mass cost reduced to 2750 from 3150.
T3 Air Energy costs increased 50%, with the exception of the Solace and Air superiority Fighters, who increased +100%.

While I would say that making the energy costs twice its former costs is fair enough to nerf the t3 air and limit his alleged OPness, reducing the costs of SAMS and reducing drastically the costs of flaks seem a bit too much. My guess is that it's beyond castration.

I do not have enough experience with 3605+ balance and its air, but it *SEEMS* that t3 and t2 air are too greatly easily countered and therefore has lost way too much influence. It seems that it's now much much much much harder to save , let's say a naval fight, than before especially since the cruisers AA have been buffed by 25% if i remember correctly.

Once again , I am merely asking for your opinion since I lack the exp with the specified balances mod.

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 31 Oct 2011, 09:07