Forged Alliance Forever

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-29T03:04:23+02:00

yes agree horrible suggestions in this thread by people who usually make good points. MMLs going through shields?! Shield damage toggle buttons?!?! The knock on implications of super effective artillery would be horrible, just look at Supcom 2.
Its not like people are winning by trurtling anyway (not since Vanilla Massfab farming). Please dont bring in these kinds of artificial and fundamental hacks.
The thinking here is so incredibly linear. Like the game purely comes down to shields vs arty.. There is so much more to it, the most basic premices like the fact that shield need to be powered, so it makes attacks against power generators so much more rewarding. What does and doesn't get shielding has to be prioritised because of cost, so that leaves weakpoints elsewhere. The fact that once u get MMLs, mobile and static arty out, you are getting constant 'free' pressure that the opponent has to 'pay' to shield against. Arty should tie up your opponents resources in shielding giving you opportunity to take other angles of attack , not just relentlessly blast through your opponents defences. The game would just become a race to T3 arty. Its all a subtle sliding balance of spending priorities and tactical descissions.
The system works perfectly, just buff the numbers a little.

Statistics: Posted by Crayfish — 29 Apr 2012, 03:04

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-28T14:08:32+02:00

Argh i hate this topic ... T3 arty is perfectly balanced as it is now, why changing when there's no problem.

You all look at the dps, like if you expected a percival dps... Don't forget that the range is also T3

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 28 Apr 2012, 14:08

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-28T13:49:52+02:00

Did i miss a patch somewhere? Don't T3 mob arty only cost 800 mass? thats nearly a third of a price of a destroyer?

Statistics: Posted by Gyle — 28 Apr 2012, 13:49

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-23T23:05:11+02:00

another option but I prefer funkoffs idea more because energy is basically FREE lategame. Get a T3 pgen up and your sorted unless yo want to go heavy air. you would spend ages trying to find the right value for the exponential increase and the balance point would be different on differnt maps. Your gonna need to make shields cost a lot of power to stop lategame spam.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 23 Apr 2012, 23:05

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-23T05:52:01+02:00

Exponential energy consumption for the shields ?
The more shields you have, the more energy each gonna require ? Would also fix the bs shield spam on navy

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 23 Apr 2012, 05:52

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-22T23:30:25+02:00

AOE is/should be the counter to spammed shields, because AOE is the counter to spammed anything in every RTS.

Statistics: Posted by Yaotzin — 22 Apr 2012, 23:30

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-22T15:24:57+02:00

T3 arty is not weak against structures at all. what it is weak against is shields and shields are OP because the damage you need to destroy them exponentially increases with the amount you have. The only solution to this is funkoffs shield interference script which upps recharge times base on the number of shields in the shield radius, keeping shield viable but making heavy layering of them not very effective. Layered shields are what stops arty.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 22 Apr 2012, 15:24

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-07T18:53:24+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
If you're going to do that, what are you going to do with the absolver? How would that unit not be obsolete compared to the T3 artillery for the aeon?

the 650dps of the absolver still has a pretty awesome use, the t3 artillery wont be anywhere near this.

Statistics: Posted by wetlettuce — 07 Apr 2012, 18:53

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-07T18:52:38+02:00

pip wrote:
If it can work like this, as the absolver does, I think it's easier to mod than adding a toggle mod (which would require an icon).

Well if someone can prove funkoff wrong all the better :p

I was told it wasn't so simple.

Statistics: Posted by wetlettuce — 07 Apr 2012, 18:52

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-07T15:51:31+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
If you're going to do that, what are you going to do with the absolver? How would that unit not be obsolete compared to the T3 artillery for the aeon?

Aeon has no problem against shields, precisely because they have the absolver (650 DPS against shields). If their artillery gets a buff against shields, it should be the smallest buff of all.
A big t3 mobile arty buff against shields is mostly justified for Cybran, the other factions should only get a small or medium buff against shields.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 07 Apr 2012, 15:51

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-07T14:34:32+02:00

If you're going to do that, what are you going to do with the absolver? How would that unit not be obsolete compared to the T3 artillery for the aeon?

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 07 Apr 2012, 14:34

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-07T17:31:57+02:00

If I'm not mistaken, here is how the Absolver works :
Damage = 5,
DamageToShields = 1300,

It deals 5 damages per shot to any unit or structure, but 1300 damages to shield (or1305?).
You can adjust whatever value you want to the artilleries to get enhanced damages to shields in the same way.

Example for Cybran t3 mobile arty buff only against shields :
Damage = 450
DamageToShields = 900 (if damages don't stack; 450 if damages stack).
Then you double the DPS the arty does against shields without modifying in any way its performance against regular targets.

If it can work like this, as the absolver does, I think it's easier to mod than adding a toggle mod (which would require an icon).

Statistics: Posted by pip — 07 Apr 2012, 13:51

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-06T19:29:25+02:00

Batmansrueckkehr wrote:
well, i am with pip on that issue and i think all our arguments for a additional dmg vs shields for t3 mob arty are already said.

This was my suggestion longgg ago, until i was told the *shield only* damage weapon aspect had some limitations to it, or whatever it was, basically put, technically not possible. Probably should of mentioned it ^^

Thus the toggle became the next best option. Since modifying t3 artilleries to do only shield damage would of got a very frosty reception

gowerly wrote:
Nothing needs to be cost effective at killing shields, IMO. This is because shields don't move.

Shields don't move? t2 mobile ones do, and I've already proven the maths they're amazingly over effective even with an army, you've even read it (well you should of, it was response to something else you said)

Plus the maths on t2 static shields says it's crazily unfair. Especially those regen rates.

Statistics: Posted by wetlettuce — 06 Apr 2012, 19:29

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-06T11:09:37+02:00

Nothing needs to be cost effective at killing shields, IMO. This is because shields don't move. You can simply drop, go around some other way (Assuming all things equal, if they build a shield and you don't you can use those resources to take air control to let your drops work.

The question would be whether there is anything that is cost effective vs mobile shields.
Two strat bombers can take out many shields. However, the cost of getting them is more than the cost of the shields. This is possibly countered by the fact that they can obliterate your army, too (yes, both players can get t3 air, but if you're getting shields you're not getting air - I am working with the idea that you have X resources and giving them out to units - If you're giving one team more mass cost of units you're implying that they're playing better anyway).

Static defenses are awlays strong, there's nothing land based really that's cost effective at killing UEF t3 + t2 pd but there's not that much of a call to nerf it, as in general you can just go around.

Statistics: Posted by Gowerly — 06 Apr 2012, 11:09

Re: T3 Mobile Artillery

2012-04-06T09:45:55+02:00

top players play team games - i had battles with saduga, rock and isen in team games. i even played zock yesterday. so they dont only focus on 1v1 games. they r also aware of team battles and the issues with it.

well, i am with pip on that issue and i think all our arguments for a additional dmg vs shields for t3 mob arty are already said.

speed buff would change nothing.

if u calculate for 600 dps, i think u rely on 2 overlapping shields. so this means for 3 overlaping shields u would need 1200 dps to get the shield gen killed which droped his shield first, right? if so, u would need more then 15 cybran t3 mob arty to get rid of those shields. who calls it the tool of cracking shielded positions? true, u can say it has splash dmg and hits those shields simultanously, however - facing a uef he just puts several t2 mob shields infront of his 3 t2 stat shields and u have no tool of cracking shields - at least as cybran

Statistics: Posted by Batmansrueckkehr — 06 Apr 2012, 09:45