Forged Alliance Forever

Re: balance changes for build 35

2012-11-22T11:27:14+02:00

Cheva wrote:
Salut,

I will need to try that unit some more then

I will make an effort to use that unit more next game to see what happens.

Chevalier

Great!
Remember that t1 mobile AA is first a AA unit, then a land unit, (like cybran skyslammer but easier to use). So, the same way you never make drops with skyslammer, the same way you should not make drops with t1 mobile AA Better make drop with a dropship full of sniper tanks and another one full of t1 tanks.
Sniper tanks are the counter for PD and are much more efficient when standing still, so they require a bit more micro than a normal t1 unit. However, their inaccuracy when moving was reduced, so they can still have a chance to hit now (while retreating for instance).

Statistics: Posted by pip — 22 Nov 2012, 11:27

Re: balance changes for build 35

2012-11-22T05:44:47+02:00

Salut,

I will need to try that unit some more then

I will make an effort to use that unit more next game to see what happens.

Chevalier

Statistics: Posted by Cheva — 22 Nov 2012, 05:44

Re: intended balance changes for build 35

2012-11-13T12:50:37+02:00

I need the sniper tank to be tested thoroughly. Since Chevalier never uses them, thinking they are bad because he doesn't know how to use them yet (he builds the AA artillery instead, which is not efficient), I can't judge from his replays.

I'm considering setting the reload time of the sniper tank to 10 seconds again (it's currently 11 seconds) on top of a slightly better chance to hit something while on the move.
Here are the reasons:
- Before, there was a bug making their inacurracy while moving not applied. So they were really too strong because accurate all the time. So now that they miss most of the time while on the move, they are not so good and not too easy to use.
- Nomads don't have powerful units to drop in an enemy base. 10 seconds reload for sniper tanks mean only 30 DPS, it's not a lot, and the AOE is not big. The current 27 DPS would mean medium tanks have more DPS and somehow, that would lead people to think that sniper tanks are weak units.

- They are really slow and also have a slow turret turn speed, meaning if the target moves, the reload time is increased until the target is in line (unlike the lobo whose rate of fire is always every 10 seconds).

However, they can be really strong in the right hands so I don't want to make them OP again in next build. So, please test!

Statistics: Posted by pip — 13 Nov 2012, 12:50

Re: intended balance changes for build 35

2012-11-12T12:01:15+02:00

DilliDalli wrote:
Remember the crawler will be used mainly for base bombardment, and its bombard mode makes it very good at that (although I wouldn't know the dps). Given that the counter to it will be snipes, think of pd wars, the crawler will spend lots of time under shields or surrounded by land. This means it needs to not have epic hp otherwise the enemy won't be able to air snipe it.

Also the tanks do need to have a slight dps advantage on antis if they cost the same amount, are slower and have less health. Otherwise they're uncompetitive. Also I'd be wary of powering up an acu to make up for weak t1, because on large maps that simply makes nomads rubbish (like roanoke, or syrtis). At least give the tanks about 27.5 dps, as mantis get 26.67 dps.

Damn the Nomads database where the mantis has 24 DPS... We'll make them 27.3 DPS, with 0.78 rate of fire so that they are strong but not too strong.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 12 Nov 2012, 12:01

Re: intended balance changes for build 35

2012-11-12T11:02:04+02:00

Remember the crawler will be used mainly for base bombardment, and its bombard mode makes it very good at that (although I wouldn't know the dps). Given that the counter to it will be snipes, think of pd wars, the crawler will spend lots of time under shields or surrounded by land. This means it needs to not have epic hp otherwise the enemy won't be able to air snipe it.

Also the tanks do need to have a slight dps advantage on antis if they cost the same amount, are slower and have less health. Otherwise they're uncompetitive. Also I'd be wary of powering up an acu to make up for weak t1, because on large maps that simply makes nomads rubbish (like roanoke, or syrtis). At least give the tanks about 27.5 dps, as mantis get 26.67 dps.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 12 Nov 2012, 11:02

Re: intended balance changes for build 35

2012-11-12T10:31:22+02:00

In previous builds, Nomads t1 was extremely strong thanks to OP sniper tanks, so it was not much a problem to have a weaker ACU. This is no longer the case. It now appears that the ACU is too weak, along with t1 in general, except that the Nomads ACU doesn't have the extra regen rate of the Cybran ACU. So this slightly better combat behaviour at t1 will be what makes the strength of the Nomads ACU.

The medium tank having 260 HP is mandatory otherwise it is shred by Sera t1 bombers. The rate of fire will be 0.77 so that it's almost 27 DPS.

As for the buff to the Crawler HP, it is mainly because of the lack of mobile shields and the difficulty to withstand any naval fight. Fatboy is still better in many areas except HP (and I also think Fatboy HP and shield values should be swapped but that's another topic). It's true, however, that I had forgotten it was quite cheaper though
What do you guys prefer : keep cheap price and the 42 000 HP, or 48 000 HP but higher price (25 k mass, 20k buildtime)?

Statistics: Posted by pip — 12 Nov 2012, 10:31

Re: intended balance changes for build 35

2012-11-12T08:27:23+02:00

DilliDalli wrote:
My comments are that this makes the ACU much more powerful- easily the best ACU now I would say (at t1 anyway). It can 1 shot all the arty except for uef and it can also one hit kill auroras. This makes it more effective than any other acu against those units. It will also kill tanks slighty quicker than other ACUs, (consider the fact that 150 damage is done at time 0) meaning that it will take 0.5 less seconds to kill a group of tanks than any other acu.

Also will the t1 tank have 26.25dps? If so that makes it slower than mantis, less health than mantis, and less damage than mantis for the same cost. Just saying. Ideally I would put them at 260 health, 3.5 speed, 37 damage and 0.75 firing rate.

Finally I would push more for keeping the Crawlers health where it was, given it costs 5k less mass than a fatty (which is the other factions equivalent) and also already has 10k more health. Giving it this health boost would make it comparable in power to the fatty, and at a much lower price.

So...before when the ACU was UP it was ok, but now that it's actually somewhat good there's an issue? The nomads have weak t1 atm, so why not have a bit stronger ACU? but tbh it still does 100dps like the rest, so even though it one shots a few units there shouldn't be too much of an issue since it isn't that much of a differance, think about how many tanks needlessly die every game due to bad control.

About the crawler, i suppose the fatty's shields can regen a bit faster than the crawler's, so i guess it's ok to offset this with a bit more hp. Also, it can not be compared to the fatty as the mechanics and weapons systems of the crawler are unique. The fatty is still better vs t4 i think.

Statistics: Posted by eXivo — 12 Nov 2012, 08:27

Re: intended balance changes for build 35

2012-11-11T23:26:40+02:00

My comments are that this makes the ACU much more powerful- easily the best ACU now I would say (at t1 anyway). It can 1 shot all the arty except for uef and it can also one hit kill auroras. This makes it more effective than any other acu against those units. It will also kill tanks slighty quicker than other ACUs, (consider the fact that 150 damage is done at time 0) meaning that it will take 0.5 less seconds to kill a group of tanks than any other acu.

Also will the t1 tank have 26.25dps? If so that makes it slower than mantis, less health than mantis, and less damage than mantis for the same cost. Just saying. Ideally I would put them at 260 health, 3.5 speed, 37 damage and 0.75 firing rate.

Finally I would push more for keeping the Crawlers health where it was, given it costs 5k less mass than a fatty (which is the other factions equivalent) and also already has 10k more health. Giving it this health boost would make it comparable in power to the fatty, and at a much lower price.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 11 Nov 2012, 23:26

balance changes for build 35

2012-11-11T23:00:49+02:00

balance changes for Build 35:

Strucures

Wall:
Size y = 0.53 (from 0.6)

PD:
Size y = 1 (from 1.05)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval units :

Cruiser:
Fusion Missile AOE = 2 (from 3)
Added in the priority list that the EMP weapon should target in priority tech 3 naval, then tech 2, then tech 1 after 'shield' priority (and before hover units).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air Units

T1 Air scout:
Added overlay for radar and sonar ranges

T1 Bomber:
Max air speed = 11 (from 10)

T2 Torpedo Gunship:
Stingray weapon : Damage Radius = 0.5 (from 1)
Torpedo Rate of Fire = 0.2 (from 0.25)

T3 Gunship:
- Stingray weapon : Damage Radius = 0.5 (from1)
HeadingArcRange = 360 (from 50 ; alternatively, make it so that the unit's body / head turns towards the target even if flying above, or next to it)
TurretPitch = -20,
TurretPitchRange = 70,
TurretPitchSpeed = 360,
TurretYaw = 0,
TurretYawRange = 180,
TurretYawSpeed = 90,

-Both Annihilator weapons:
TurretPitch = -45,
TurretPitchRange = 70,
TurretPitchSpeed = 180,
TurretYaw = 0,
TurretYawRange = 180,
TurretYawSpeed = 180,

Comet:
- Air Crash explosion = Damage Radius = 12 (from 8)
- Max Radius = 70 (from 60)
- Damage Radius = 1 (from 0)
- muzzle velocity = 70 (from 55)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Land Units

ACU and SCU:
Weapon damage = 150 (from 200)
Rate of fire = 0.6667 (from 0.5)
Gun upgrade (or gunright for the SCU):
addrateoffire = 0.6667 (from 0.5)
sniper upgrade:
add damage = 350 (from 400 or 200 for the SCU)
AddRateOfFire = 0.3, (from 0.3334)
SCU Death explosion damage = 1000 (from 500)

Light tank Asator:
size y = 0.4 (from 0.3) means higher hitbox

T1 tank destroyer:
firing randomness while moving = 1.25 (from 1.8)
Rate of fire = 0.1 (from 0.09)

T1 Medium tank
Health and Max Health = 260 (from 250)
elevation = 0.34 (from 0.23)
Speeds = 3.6 (from 3.5)
damage = 35 (from 40)
rate of fire = 0.78 (from 0.7)

T1 mobile AA:
Artillery weapon damage = 30 (from 25)
Rateoffire = 0.15 (from 0.14)

T2 heavy tank
Health and Max Health = 1300 (from 1100)
speeds = 2.7 (from 3)
Damage = 35 (from 40)
Rate of fire = 0.6 (from 0.625)
DPS = 63 (from 75)

T2 mobile AA:
Damage = 32 (from 30)

EMP tank:
Health and Max Health = 1600 (from 1500)
Energy = 1320 (from 990)
Mass = 220 (from 198)
Vision radius = 28 (from 15)
"Mobile tech 3" to the priority list just before "mobile tech 2"

T2 Fast Hovertank:
Health and Max Health = 900 (from 800)
Vision Radius = 20 (from 15)
Damage = 6 (from 7)
Range = 20 (from 18)
Rate of fire = 5 (from 4)
DPS = 60 (from 54)

T3 super heavy hovertank:
Health and Max Health = 5500 (from 5200)
elevation = 0.30 (from 0.23)

Beamer:
'EXPERIMENTAL' at the top of the target priority of the weapon.

Bullfrog:
Health and Max Health = 78000 (from 72000)
'EXPERIMENTAL' at the top of the firing priority list for the first and second weapon
Gattling weapon rate of fire = 6 (from 5) DPS = 1800 (from 1500)

Statistics: Posted by pip — 11 Nov 2012, 23:00