Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Small imbalances

2014-03-09T21:44:32+02:00

Thanks, there is indeed a difference with the other factions, the code doesn't seem to work the same way for nomads, so the costs used in nomads are the same as in FAF, but in FAF, they take into account the previous factory cost. It'll be fixed in the next version.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 09 Mar 2014, 21:44

Re: Small imbalances

2014-03-09T21:07:50+02:00

There's a problem with the price of the not HQ factories i think.
I saw that the upgrade to T2 land fac (not HQ) was costing 9mass/sec. for other factions it's 4 or 5mass/sec

There's a lot of stuff to balance, but nomads received a lot of improvements since my last try 2 years ago.
good job!

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 09 Mar 2014, 21:07

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-24T15:07:26+02:00

Some balance changes and bugfixes were made in latest build (45). Please test again.

As for concerns by Apofenas, here are some further explanations:
Before anything else, there was no change to FAF t3 air except Gunships. T3 bombers can not be countered by mobile flaks because no changes were made to either units. Check 3629 changelog.

1) Many Nomads units are hovercrafts, but you may not have noticed that they have a 20% speed penalty when they move over water (except the Experimentals).

2) Nomads t1 is different from others. The t1 arty is bad but it's also anti-air. The sniper tank counters t1 pd, except on hills, in which case the t1 arty can be used, or the t1 gunship, or a combination of both. For Nomads, t1 air is as important as t1 land on all maps.

The sniper tank is expensive, but it can kill any t1 tank in one shot. It's perfectly acurate when not moving, and inacurate when moving. So it is meant to be used for ambushes, or with micro if used offensively. In anchor mod (locked up position) it will be perfectly acurate, have the same range as t1 arties, but cannot move, so it's vulnerable.

3) Nomads t2 is also different from the others, especially because the sniper tank is quite efficient at t2. To counter long range units like Ilshavoh, you need EMP tanks (30 range), sniper tanks (28 range) mixed with your t2 tanks. To counter longer range units like Hoplites and Mongoose, you need MML, they have splash, and EMP tanks + t2 tanks to protect them. Note that EMP tank also is very good weapon against shields. Another unit useful to fight Hoplites and Mongoose is the t2 fast hover tank : it is very very fast, so it can catch up with Hoplites easily, even when microed to dodge the shots.

4) At t3, Nomads need to also use EMP tanks with their t3 unit, otherwise, they will be beaten. Their t3 assault unit is quite fast and has a long range canon, so yes, it can be used like a t3 aurora against high HP units, with long reload time and AOE. Against t1 and t2, it has a fast shorter range weapon.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 24 Feb 2014, 15:07

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-19T20:37:54+02:00

Yeah I think we forgot to remove the initialdamage implementation that we copied from Nomads into the 3629 patch.

edit: Problem found and fixed, waiting for testing but will be solved in next version of Nomads.

Statistics: Posted by Brute51 — 19 Feb 2014, 20:37

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-19T08:17:08+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
pip wrote:All t3 bombers can kill t2 mexes in one pass except Cybran and Nomads. That is because of their big AOE. The Nomads T3 bomber also has 3200 HP (Cybran 3700, UEF 4000). It's the easiest to counter (can be countered by flaks and die to SAM much sooner). As for damages, it deals only 2000 damages when Cybran deals 2750 damages and Aeon deals 3450.

If it would be true, it would be nice. But that is not. I tested that before posting. It deals like 3200 damadge total. This may be the same thing, like T3 arty had. That's why i posted it.

Check this replay: http://faforever.com/faf/vault/replay_v ... id=1879599

The T3 PGen near mex shows it's actual damadge.

This is unintended, and probably happens since last FAF update. Will be fixed soon. Good catch.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 19 Feb 2014, 08:17

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-19T00:53:24+02:00

pip wrote:
All t3 bombers can kill t2 mexes in one pass except Cybran and Nomads. That is because of their big AOE. The Nomads T3 bomber also has 3200 HP (Cybran 3700, UEF 4000). It's the easiest to counter (can be countered by flaks and die to SAM much sooner). As for damages, it deals only 2000 damages when Cybran deals 2750 damages and Aeon deals 3450.

If it would be true, it would be nice. But that is not. I tested that before posting. It deals like 3200 damadge total. This may be the same thing, like T3 arty had. That's why i posted it.

Check this replay: http://faforever.com/faf/vault/replay_v ... id=1879599

The T3 PGen near mex shows it's actual damadge.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 19 Feb 2014, 00:53

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-18T20:03:32+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
Nomad T3 carpet bomber is able to destroy T2 mass extractor per pass. That is unfair since it costs 1600 mass and has the biggest AOE.

All t3 bombers can kill t2 mexes in one pass except Cybran and Nomads. That is because of their big AOE. The Nomads T3 bomber also has 3200 HP (Cybran 3700, UEF 4000). It's the easiest to counter (can be countered by flaks and die to SAM much sooner). As for damages, it deals only 2000 damages when Cybran deals 2750 damages and Aeon deals 3450. All these weaknesses are the reasons why it is cheaper. It's like pillar : it is cheaper than Ilshavoh or Obsidian, because it is less powerful and has less hp.

Also the Nomads t3 bomber deals a part of its damages (800 damages out of 2000) over time. This means that if you move units away, they will suffer less than 2000 damages, and also that shields are more efficient to protect against it because frontloaded damage is only 1200 (frontloaded damages of Aeon = 3450, do you see the huge difference?). Most of the time, what I read in multiplayer games is that the Nomads t3 bomber is crap. And that's why it's cheaper. If it was not cheaper, it would be total crap for sure.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 18 Feb 2014, 20:03

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-18T13:59:05+02:00

Nomad T3 carpet bomber is able to destroy T2 mass extractor per pass. That is unfair since it costs 1600 mass and has the biggest AOE.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 18 Feb 2014, 13:59

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-17T17:30:08+02:00

Torpedo bombers kill the Nomad MML underwater in one shot. ACU with t2 suits can reclaim them easily if they are near the shore or in ponds, and engineers can build torpedo launchers and TMD to kill them in ponds, or even reclaim them. If they are in open sea, they are very easily killed by subs / torpedo bombers / Destroyers.

And of course, several TMD + shields will counter the missiles of the MML until you can have a handful of torpedo bombers. Only on some maps like Canis River Nomads MML are hard to counter, but if you know that they will be built, it's possible to prepare for them by not building near the river, and protecting the part of the base that is near the river / denying access to that part of the river.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 17 Feb 2014, 17:30

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-17T15:29:14+02:00

If its just under the surface it can be ground fired. If its on the sea floor then it can't. There's a pretty big difference

Statistics: Posted by Deering — 17 Feb 2014, 15:29

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-17T13:49:28+02:00

Dragonfire wrote:
Maybe the t2mml hover underwater, like Harms?

That doesn't change a fact of it being underwater.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 17 Feb 2014, 13:49

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-17T13:26:43+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
The T2 mml may have problems with counters. I found out that it's not hover unit, it moves under water and can fire from there. So such things can bombard your base being even in range of T2 PDs. Possible counters to that if you don't have/lost navy? The T2 torpedo bombers seems to be the most efficient one. But seraphim and aeon ones have problems with shoting torps near coasts. Though you need T2 air factory to do that.
The T2 arty isn't that efficient counter to mmls in general, in deep waters arty may become useless(especially aeon one).

Maybe the t2mml hover underwater, like Harms?

Statistics: Posted by Dragonfire — 17 Feb 2014, 13:26

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-17T13:19:49+02:00

The T2 mml may have problems with counters. I found out that it's not hover unit, it moves under water and can fire from there. So such things can bombard your base being even in range of T2 PDs. Possible counters to that if you don't have/lost navy? The T2 torpedo bombers seems to be the most efficient one. But seraphim and aeon ones have problems with shoting torps near coasts. Though you need T2 air factory to do that.
The T2 arty isn't that efficient counter to mmls in general, in deep waters arty may become useless(especially aeon one).

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 17 Feb 2014, 13:19

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-16T14:12:53+02:00

pip wrote:
There is a problem with the t3 static artillery.

Also groundfire are not working and the destruction of the orbital thing:
https://bitbucket.org/Brute51/nomads/is ... -arty-bugs

Statistics: Posted by Dragonfire — 16 Feb 2014, 14:12

Re: Small imbalances

2014-02-16T14:04:33+02:00

There is a problem with the t3 static artillery.

You can see the intended stats here, at the bottom of the post (build 40):
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3620

Each shot is supposed to deal 1500 damages. For some reason, this change is gone, and each shot deals 5000 damages. So it's clearly OP and not intended to be so strong.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 16 Feb 2014, 14:04