Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Standard build order

2012-04-25T13:55:31+02:00

SJAndrew wrote:
As uberge said, you don't want to make anything unless you need it. So, unless you're busting T2 PD, don't build MMLs. If they don't have an air factory, why make AA?

I actually disagree with this. Overspamming aa blindly is of course bad but making lil bit of it in advance can save alot of trouble later. (talking about 1v1 here)

I habitually put 1 aa car in my T1 factory order (ratio about 5 tank 1-2arty 1 aa 2 scout) to make surprising air attack do lil bit less damage. Its cheap, builds fast and even if theres no air it can make secondary role as cannon fodder unit. I find spending ~3-4% of my money to aa that sometimes doesnt see any action is imo better call than taking risk of having to run back home from enemy gates cause of 2-3 bombers and losing loads of units meanwhile. Its trading bit of effectivity for bit of reliability.

If I have zero AA and start making it only when I see air, that time between my reaction and it becoming effective is free joyriding for enemy bombers. T1 bombers can do alot of harm for T1 army and as secondary effect limit their momevement alot when i have to keep dodging / pulling back.

I agree about MMLs tho, T2 pds are different in nature than air, they will kindly wait while you get MMLs up and stay where they are.

Statistics: Posted by Tiptushi — 25 Apr 2012, 13:55

Re: Standard build order

2012-04-25T13:15:48+02:00

Flipper wrote:
As in, giving the enemy interceptors something to distract them while your interceptors kill them?

Exactly.

Let's say I have 15 ints and a drop, and my opponent has 20 ints.

If I send that drop out ahead, if timed right, one of two things will happen:

1) The enemy focuses on the drop, nicely exposing all of their interceptor's backs to mine. The drop may die, but I will win air.
2) The enemy focuses on my air, and the drop will most likely get through.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 25 Apr 2012, 13:15

Re: Standard build order

2012-04-25T00:04:56+02:00

uberge3k wrote:
For air, I only make interceptors until I know I have air, or want to use bombers or drops as a distraction to give my enemy's air something to focus on so that I can win air. After that I make just enough air to ensure I maintain air superiority, and either use the extra energy for an ACU upgrade or switch to bombers / drops.

As in, giving the enemy interceptors something to distract them while your interceptors kill them?

Statistics: Posted by Flipper — 25 Apr 2012, 00:04

Re: Standard build order

2012-04-24T20:23:51+02:00

My standard BO is:

Factory pgen pgen mex mex then is map/game dependent.

The factory will make 2X engineers (unless it's 1v1 and then I might consider 2X AA first) then LAB LAB and scout then engineers (15-20 or so) then T2.

The rest of what I build is based upon what I find with my scout and ACU or what the points tell me (high points can mean high energy which can me an air centered build).

Standard T1 factory "spam" queue: 2x arty, 5X tank, AA, scout, repeat (note that arty is first when I expect an ACU or T1 pd, otherwise tanks are first).

Standard T1 air factory: scout then depends on what I see (if they have no AA, then a bomber)

Standard T2 factory (UEF) "spam": shield, flak, 4x mongoose, repeat (perhaps riptides if I'm facing t1 spam)

As uberge said, you don't want to make anything unless you need it. So, unless you're busting T2 PD, don't build MMLs. If they don't have an air factory, why make AA? If you're not being attacked or yourself on the attack, then don't build tanks.

What this game is all about is choices and costs (basically an economic sim). Everything you build has both a direct cost and opportunity cost. The cost of your unused T1 spam army is both the direct cost of the army but also the cost in how it affected your ability to upgrade your econ/tech.

Bottom line: build ONLY what you NEED. If you have a t1 queue repeating mid-game, you're wasting rescources. If you have a spam factory idle, kill it and reclaim it. If you have excess power, reclaim t1 pgens. If you have a bunch of idling T1 engineers, have them assist your factories or kill them and reclaim them.

Much like economics: what you've spent on something is moot. It's what you're spending now. What you've spent is a sunk cost and exists regardless. So, if you have invested mass and energy into something but you're not USING it or not GOING TO use it, then reclaim it or USE IT.

SO MANY noobs suffer mid game from not grasping this. Their factories are pumping out strikers just for the hell of it. Meanwhile, your opponent is teching. So, by the time you CAN use these tanks (when you are attacked by a couple of SABs), they are nothing but veterency fodder and free mass for your higher tech opponent.

BUILD NOTHING WITHOUT PURPOSE. If that next tank is not GOING TO BE USED, then DO NOT BUILD IT!!!

Statistics: Posted by SJAndrew — 24 Apr 2012, 20:23

Re: Standard build order

2012-04-24T19:37:48+02:00

Only make what you need. Waste not, want not.

Eg, if your enemy doesn't have any T2 PDs, you don't need any MMLs at all. If he isn't heavily investing in air, or if you already have air superiority, you generally don't need tons and tons of flak.

At T1, never make AAs unless you're sure you need them. I generally use a ratio of 5 tanks : 1 scout : 1 arty for spam.

For air, I only make interceptors until I know I have air, or want to use bombers or drops as a distraction to give my enemy's air something to focus on so that I can win air. After that I make just enough air to ensure I maintain air superiority, and either use the extra energy for an ACU upgrade or switch to bombers / drops.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 24 Apr 2012, 19:37

Standard build order

2012-04-24T19:21:47+02:00

Do they exist? Do they entirely depend on map or map size/type?

Here's what I'm doing currently for my main land factory and usually for additionals (not one used only for engineer production):
T1 Land:
tank, aa, arty, tank, aa, arty, tank, arty, tank, arty

Sometimes, for the additional land factories, I omit the aa.

T2 Land AEON:
Usually go for blazes due to the front-end nature of obsidians early on, and shift from blazes to obsidians when opponent has t2.
Blaze x 3, aa, mml
then shifting to Obsidian x 3, aa, mml

T2 Land Seraphim:
Ilshy, Ilshy, Ilshy, aa, mml

T1 Air:
Interceptors almost exclusively

As for engineers, if I'm Seraphim, I try to use an air factory to produce engineers. Otherwise, I devote 1 land factory for engineers in an endless loop .

Please comment and critique, I'd appreciate pointers and suggestions.

Statistics: Posted by Flipper — 24 Apr 2012, 19:21