Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-28T09:27:13+02:00

I have a more crazy theory. The ending of Supreme Commander was left open because it would make a nice, inclusive and culturally diverse ending. When they decided to make a new one they naturally needed a new faction and settled on releasing the game for cash moniez despite not being able or willing to tie up every loose end from the previous title. Following that success they decided to go full ham ca$h money mode with Supreme Ca$hmoneymander 2.

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 28 Nov 2016, 09:27

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-28T09:20:19+02:00

I was going to make some comment about how the cybran one made some sense if you disregarded the exit movie,

however went through the timeline movie at the start of FA and found this: http://imgur.com/a/hWd2s

If that made any sense to the actual campaign however, then the black sun weapon would have maybe backfired, considering how "untested" the weapon was, or instead of transferring her consciousness through the gate network took her body also and she moved to the hideout in the meantime

Statistics: Posted by biass — 28 Nov 2016, 09:20

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-28T05:07:50+02:00

I think you smoked more this morning than you should have.

Uef ending showed black sun blowing up a ton of planets, not just 1.

Also Burke went missing after, clearly you can't make a missing person the top general of a massive coalition....

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 28 Nov 2016, 05:07

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-28T01:43:58+02:00

The ending definitely cannot be Cybran 100% - then there'd be no quantum travel, which is clearly seen in all campaigns.
May be Aeon but again, unlikely - then we'd have The Princess being the Supreme Commander, not Gen. Hall.
UEF makes the most sense: they fire the "Black Sun", blow up 1 core world of each opposing faction (Minerva is NOT a core world, it's an important research base but NOT a coreworld, it was not called so in the vanilla campaign), then Aeon and Cybran surrender to not lose more planets to a weapon which clearly functions properly.

All endings have some kind of teaser, yes. But UEF's ending is the one that makes the most sense.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 28 Nov 2016, 01:43

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-27T14:43:05+02:00

Gorton wrote:
TheKoopa wrote:Black sun is fired in all of the endings. Also can't be UEF because aeon and Cybran still had a lot of their worlds (before the Seraphim invasion)

It's not fired at all in the other two endings.

Yes it is.

Source on their worlds existing? Almost no planets are mentioned at all. We only see that the factions have barely anything left.

Start Campaign mission 1. You'll see a map appear with the seraphim system and minerva clearly still there. Given the story in SupCom, they're the Cybran and Aeon most important worlds, which would've been destroyed in a UEF victory. QAI mentions that their core worlds have been destroyed. Avatar Marxon mentions "I've failed you princess".

Cuddles wrote:
The answer lies in the Seraphim lore.

"When the Black Sun was deployed by the UEF, it created a rift between the Seraphim realm and humanity's realm. An army of the Seraphim came through the rift to cleanse the galaxy."
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Seraphim

Also the other endings doesn't make much sense plot wise
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Sun

Absolutely correct.

If cybran won, why is there interstellar travel?
If aeon won, why was black sun fired?

Like I said before: FA doesn't exactly match up with any ending. But the UEF one makes the most sense.[/quote]
The Wiki is wrong. In the introduction timeline film, it's not said which faction fires black sun so that Wiki statement has got absolutely nothing to go on. BTW: the wiki is inaccurate in more places, including gameplay and statistics.

If Cybran won, why is there a functioning quantum gate system? No, they Cybran victory didn't occur but in the timeline film of FA you do see the mention that QAI cripples the Quantum network. Not as bad as it could've been but that does happen.
If UEF won, why is are those planets there? So UEF didn't have it's victory. Period.
If Aeon won, why was Black Sun fired? Well, it was even with the Aeon princess' victory.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFrUjCgKpsc[/youtube]

In addition, rift between the princess and the Avatar was the main focus of the Aeon campaign and in the UEF story the Avatar directly serves the princess, even mentions his failure. Quite the opposite of what happens in the Aeon campaign. There the military is divided in those who help marxon and those who fight for the princess.. Given the existence of the order which joins in killing everyone in sight, the loyalists fighting against that and the Aeon military nearly falling apart in SupCom Aeon-6, those things are directly related to each other.

As for using the UEF bonus scene as reasoning, the Cybran bonus scene is this:
[youtube]https://youtu.be/rWXyrviZN3U?t=2m[/youtube]

QAI mentions the arrival of the Seraphim. I can't find the Aeon bonus scene though but there the Princess becomes aware of the oncoming disaster.

The conclusion: none of the SupCom endings are canon for the start of FA, but for that alliance in FA to even slightly work, I'd at least assume that one faction of that alliance didn't first destroy the core worlds of the other two. I'd also think that the quantum gates are at least not destroyed.

I'd rather deal with the fact that a woman floats over a giant laser cannon and after that lives in a spectral state for a moment, than with the fact that destroyed planets are suddenly back or the destruction of quantum gates being cancelled.

I liked the dots stuff, but we can't take that as canon, more like a re imagining.

Why not? There are canonical loopholes between SupCom and FA, no matter what path you take. Dots deals with it, adds depth to it and introduces a lot more. The SupCom story is good compared to other stories in games but it's nothing compared to the added story dots made. We'd do well to take this as the way to go. Going over the SupCom end and FA start without it is going to be rather pointless.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 27 Nov 2016, 14:43

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-27T05:47:47+02:00

They all know of something incoming. I think it's like Deus Ex Invisible War where they took parts from all three endings.

Statistics: Posted by Professor — 27 Nov 2016, 05:47

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-27T05:37:16+02:00

All 3 have teasers actually, Aeon has Burke looking at some planet saying "No" with some dramatic music and Cybran has Brackman saying "What have you done" to QAI

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 27 Nov 2016, 05:37

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-27T04:39:37+02:00

UEF ending is the correct one. Beating the game with UEF actually shows the Seraphim coming through the rift...
object

Statistics: Posted by Nepty — 27 Nov 2016, 04:39

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-27T00:43:30+02:00

Wouldn't destroying the enemies core worlds put UEF on roughly the same level as everyone else, post Seraphim? I mean, they invaded right out of Earth and expanded from there. UEF in FA is missing most of it's core worlds because they're under enemy control.

Statistics: Posted by OneStep — 27 Nov 2016, 00:43

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-27T00:00:55+02:00

Gorton wrote:
TheKoopa wrote:Black sun is fired in all of the endings. Also can't be UEF because aeon and Cybran still had a lot of their worlds (before the Seraphim invasion)

It's not fired at all in the other two endings.

Source on their worlds existing? Almost no planets are mentioned at all. We only see that the factions have barely anything left.

I liked the dots stuff, but we can't take that as canon, more like a re imagining.

Cuddles wrote:
The answer lies in the Seraphim lore.

"When the Black Sun was deployed by the UEF, it created a rift between the Seraphim realm and humanity's realm. An army of the Seraphim came through the rift to cleanse the galaxy."
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Seraphim

Also the other endings doesn't make much sense plot wise
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Sun

Absolutely correct.

If cybran won, why is there interstellar travel?
If aeon won, why was black sun fired?

Like I said before: FA doesn't exactly match up with any ending. But the UEF one makes the most sense.

The Cybran ending has black sun firing into the gate to discharge the virus, and the Aeon ending has it firing into Burke instead of the gate.

If UEF won, *all* of the factions would be in devastation. Aeon wouldn't be so strong, at least until the civil war, UEF wouldn't be the main faction in power in FA (as much of UEF's territory was stolen by Aeon in the Vanilla campaign), and Cybran would just plain not exist.

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 27 Nov 2016, 00:00

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-26T23:42:32+02:00

TheKoopa wrote:
Black sun is fired in all of the endings. Also can't be UEF because aeon and Cybran still had a lot of their worlds (before the Seraphim invasion)

It's not fired at all in the other two endings.

Source on their worlds existing? Almost no planets are mentioned at all. We only see that the factions have barely anything left.

I liked the dots stuff, but we can't take that as canon, more like a re imagining.

Cuddles wrote:
The answer lies in the Seraphim lore.

"When the Black Sun was deployed by the UEF, it created a rift between the Seraphim realm and humanity's realm. An army of the Seraphim came through the rift to cleanse the galaxy."
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Seraphim

Also the other endings doesn't make much sense plot wise
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Sun

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 26 Nov 2016, 23:42

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-26T22:43:03+02:00

OneStep wrote:
I'll definitely have a look at the novels, though I don't know about accepting them as the official story, especially if you've got the Avatar of War turning into a super-commander.

Trust me, you're going to like it. LotR has the threat of Sauron, Star Wars has Darth Vader at first and in the last film the Emperor and Harry Potter has Voldemort. The Avatar-of-War is the equivalent of that, but dots has managed to pit someone as inhuman against him. These characters certainly have way more than you'll see in the mission intro films.

While the lore created in the game itself is good and interesting, dots has made an actual story of it that not only makes a decision about the mismatch between SupCom and FA, but also resolves it very well. I do recommend you start at book 1 though, because dots adds several characters and you're going to have some trouble hanging on if you start in book 4 or 5.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 26 Nov 2016, 22:43

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-26T21:54:02+02:00

Plasma_Wolf wrote:
All endings are in a way incorrect. On the GPG forums I once read that GPG had said that the Cybran was "most" correct.

Based on the FA intro movie, the Aeon one is most correct. If you're going for what's most realistic compared to our real life, don't bother: we've got alien bombers coming from a rift in the space-time continuum that's not in the direction of which Black Sun fired or at the exact origin of the weapon firing. We've got 40m tall weapons of doom going from one end of the galaxy to the other in a second. We've got one bloke transferring his brain to a jar in order to live for 1000 years and having an artificial intelligence as his sidekick while on the other end space-hippies go mental and want to kill everyone. Someone transferring to a ghost-like phase and back is not that far fetched in that regard. Also, this person turns into a ball of energy in order to seal that rift from which 400 Asswashers started washing Earth's ass earlier. One person did that.

What the timeline film mentions, is only that Black Sun is fired, not by which faction. What's on the wiki is an assumption that's not based on what's actually mentioned in the timeline film.
The film also mentions the Death of Riley on X-Day, as well as the Seraphim ravaging Earth. It mentions the disappearance of Burke too (and she returns in mission 2). In addition to this, the Avatar-of-War is gone too, but you see that because he's just not around, not because he's explicitly reported dead.

Also in the story timeline film: how the Aeon split between the Order and the Loyalists, who had to go into the war guerilla-style. That's the only fully human faction essentially at war with the other human factions. The Cybrans are not at war with the UEF or vice versa. The Loyalists join in the alliance as well to fight against the Order, Seraphim and QAI. QAI uses Cybran units but his ACUs are remote controlled (It mentions it when you kill the Cybran ACU in mission 2).

You can see in any mission intro that the planets supposedly destroyed by the UEF firing black sun, are still around. Most notably Seraphim II. With the UEF firing, the Avatar was actually there and got killed that way. In the Aeon story, you get to kill him in the final mission. In the Cybran story, he's not actually around (or is he? I didn't finish the Cybran story).

On the thing about the UEF being the only one actually firing Black Sun: yeah, them firing gives the biggest fireworks, but in the SupCom intro missions, Burke/QAI mention being able to repurpose Black Sun for their own purposes. Capturing it in the respective final missions does lead to it firing, but essentially for a massive data payload across the quantum network. That's still Black Sun firing.

This is dotswarlock's series of SupCom books and he also had to deal with the end and start of the two stories. I absolutely recommend to read this and take this as the official story:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_LpCNQ9Qch-eE5TbU4tODI5Y2s/edit?pli=1

Books 1-4: before SupCom.
Book 5: SupCom.
Books 6-9: Between SupCom missions and FA missions.
Book 10: Between FA-5 and FA-6.
Books 11-13: After FA, and including what SupCom2 should've been as a story.

A short summary:
Spoiler: show
Combined win between the UEF/Aeon/Cybran against the Avatar-of-War, who's turned into the a godlike all-powerful commander. Burke next delivers her message to try and end the war. Riley is killed by one of his own men because he doesn't listen to Burke's call. The Seraphim attack next, with help from QAI, while the Cybrans take time to even figure that out.

Brackman figures out first (immediately) but he's forced to take time in order to deliver the news about QAI to everyone instead of one single group of people at a time. The Seraphim manage to take control over the Aeon because a willing and unaware pawn becomes the head of state. Burke is in a coma after delivering the message and is hidden carefully while the few loyalists start the guerilla war.

Later the Cybran and UEF start an alliance, while the Loyalists join a bit later. Then two books about how the old ACUs are replaced with the new versions (essentially counterparts to the Seraphim). After that, the first four missions and then book 10

I'll definitely have a look at the novels, though I don't know about accepting them as the official story, especially if you've got the Avatar of War turning into a super-commander.

My impression so far from what people have said and what I've read and is that, in canon, none of the endings or story routes quite happened but all 'somewhat' happened. QAI didn't fire the Black Sun, but did manage to seize some control over the Quantum Gates. Burke took steps towards her ascension, but never actually sent a message as she didn't fire the Black Sun. The UEF fire the Black Sun, but didn't destroy any of the Core Worlds. So the Cybran ending IS actually the closest to occurring, as it's the only ending that's main effect (crippling the quantum network) is confirmed to occur.

Statistics: Posted by OneStep — 26 Nov 2016, 21:54

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-26T21:14:57+02:00

All endings are in a way incorrect. On the GPG forums I once read that GPG had said that the Cybran was "most" correct.

Based on the FA intro movie, the Aeon one is most correct. If you're going for what's most realistic compared to our real life, don't bother: we've got alien bombers coming from a rift in the space-time continuum that's not in the direction of which Black Sun fired or at the exact origin of the weapon firing. We've got 40m tall weapons of doom going from one end of the galaxy to the other in a second. We've got one bloke transferring his brain to a jar in order to live for 1000 years and having an artificial intelligence as his sidekick while on the other end space-hippies go mental and want to kill everyone. Someone transferring to a ghost-like phase and back is not that far fetched in that regard. Also, this person turns into a ball of energy in order to seal that rift from which 400 Asswashers started washing Earth's ass earlier. One person did that.

What the timeline film mentions, is only that Black Sun is fired, not by which faction. What's on the wiki is an assumption that's not based on what's actually mentioned in the timeline film.
The film also mentions the Death of Riley on X-Day, as well as the Seraphim ravaging Earth. It mentions the disappearance of Burke too (and she returns in mission 2). In addition to this, the Avatar-of-War is gone too, but you see that because he's just not around, not because he's explicitly reported dead.

Also in the story timeline film: how the Aeon split between the Order and the Loyalists, who had to go into the war guerilla-style. That's the only fully human faction essentially at war with the other human factions. The Cybrans are not at war with the UEF or vice versa. The Loyalists join in the alliance as well to fight against the Order, Seraphim and QAI. QAI uses Cybran units but his ACUs are remote controlled (It mentions it when you kill the Cybran ACU in mission 2).

You can see in any mission intro that the planets supposedly destroyed by the UEF firing black sun, are still around. Most notably Seraphim II. With the UEF firing, the Avatar was actually there and got killed that way. In the Aeon story, you get to kill him in the final mission. In the Cybran story, he's not actually around (or is he? I didn't finish the Cybran story).

On the thing about the UEF being the only one actually firing Black Sun: yeah, them firing gives the biggest fireworks, but in the SupCom intro missions, Burke/QAI mention being able to repurpose Black Sun for their own purposes. Capturing it in the respective final missions does lead to it firing, but essentially for a massive data payload across the quantum network. That's still Black Sun firing.

This is dotswarlock's series of SupCom books and he also had to deal with the end and start of the two stories. I absolutely recommend to read this and take this as the official story:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_LpCNQ9Qch-eE5TbU4tODI5Y2s/edit?pli=1

Books 1-4: before SupCom.
Book 5: SupCom.
Books 6-9: Between SupCom missions and FA missions.
Book 10: Between FA-5 and FA-6.
Books 11-13: After FA, and including what SupCom2 should've been as a story.

A short summary:

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 26 Nov 2016, 21:14

Re: Winner of Infinity War?

2016-11-26T21:10:51+02:00

What Cuddles says seems pretty definitive, but that info is on a wiki. Did it originally come from an official manual or document, or from somebody deciding the UEF won and writing it down?

Personally, I can't see the Aeon ending happening. I mean, Burke linking herself to every human in existence would have been a massive spiritual shift in the galaxy, and there's nothing indicative of that. That's on top of the whole ghost thing.

And the Cybran ending definitely didn't happen.

I'm leaning towards a mostly UEF ending as well, though not with the destruction of the core worlds. Or at least not all of them.

Statistics: Posted by OneStep — 26 Nov 2016, 21:10