Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2017-11-14T16:36:11+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=15421 2017-11-14T16:36:11+02:00 2017-11-14T16:36:11+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156501#p156501 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
We all know that communication is indeed key with situations on FAF/Discord unless something really bad happens (like NSFW content being posted or viscious attacks towards members of the community). Personally, I'd like to suggest something like a hearing. This is probably not the strongest suggestion you've had, but it's worth a shot in my opinion and feedback is also appreciated for this idea. As far as I'm aware, you can start new IRC channels in aeolus with the /join command. If a minor offense or mishap occurs, perhaps go with what was mentioned before and give the member 24 hours to respond after a report. Or, if both members are online, PM them to join a channel that's created by a moderator so they can both explain their side of the story whilst a FAF mod watches over the discussion. At least then, that gives both users the right to appeal and explain what happened without making it public. Obviously if a user quits right away or responds by saying "No, I'm not joining that channel", the moderators have every right to go ahead and apply whatever punishment they feel is necessary. Perhaps that would open up the communication a little in terms of mod-to-user discussion.

We all know that no system is perfect and requires a little work. Given that moderation isn't my field outside of Discord, I won't poke my nose in too much. I'm sure that everyone here can understand that Voodoo and the team have quite a work-load on their hands with all of the reports they have to go through.

Statistics: Posted by JJ173 — 14 Nov 2017, 16:36


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2017-11-14T02:55:49+02:00 2017-11-14T02:55:49+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156481#p156481 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]> Edit: I work with Exotic quite often, so I'm confident enough in his role and presence on the team. I would still be interested in participating with the team to help out, as he's already debriefed me on the nature of your work; so that's on the table, if more manpower is needed.

Statistics: Posted by Ze Dogfather — 14 Nov 2017, 02:55


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2017-11-13T21:15:12+02:00 2017-11-13T21:15:12+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156473#p156473 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
So we solved 37 from 42 reports. Ok I'm also waiting for some hard copy replays to finish the work but as you know you are lucky these days if a replay is working. ^^

So I want to say thanks at this point for the great work!

If anyone has questions (the reporter e.g.), feel free to pm us.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 13 Nov 2017, 21:15


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2017-11-13T15:05:24+02:00 2017-11-13T15:05:24+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156442#p156442 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]> Remove the topic that listed ban is a good thing, cause there is no reason to expose a ban to all the community.
The only thing missing is a clear and easy way to appeal. Maybe create a form and link it with the ban reason would fix it.

Also you guys should know that most of the report are on dualgap/thermo at 30+min and process them take a lot of time. So asking a 5 ppl team to watch 3 times each replay before taking a decision is not realist.

Statistics: Posted by jackherer — 13 Nov 2017, 15:05


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2017-11-13T09:10:12+02:00 2017-11-13T09:10:12+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156426#p156426 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
Wise Old Dog wrote:
When it comes to direct interaction on the discord I am quite open and expressive with the community there, I'd say most of the mods are, and overall are well received. We do receive the general complaint of rules or actions, whether it comes down to the layout and design of the channels offered (we're open to feedback, let us know!), or when we must step in where there is a complication. We have had trouble in the past about certain members and their behavior towards others, and enough of these have offered a glimpse into the different kinds of situations we sometimes get. Typically action taken against the offender is discussed unless it is indisputably evident of misconduct, yet we still like to report these to ensure that there is a level of consensus and appropriate understanding of the situation. Be it profile photos uploaded or names, or much worse, the team on discord have done a fair job of communicating this with the offender, and providing as much of an opportunity to make corrective action or to make it clear of the nature of their consequences.


It has been my pleasure to give you a trial by fire.

Statistics: Posted by moonbearonmeth — 13 Nov 2017, 09:10


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2017-11-13T07:47:34+02:00 2017-11-13T07:47:34+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156423#p156423 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
I'll start off with saying that this does not equate, nor compare, in any rate to being a real moderator on FAF, where there is much more direct involvement and actions taken to responding to reports. However some time ago I applied and became a Discord moderator, and think that there are similar issues that are recurring, even if they are insignificant in comparison to the likes of aeolus, where it is far more populated, and being on client there is much more work to be done (I'd like to think FAF discord matters a little, right? :) ). My time there and the people I've worked gave me a bit of understanding into the kind of mindset that goes into making these difficult decisions, and appropriately reacting when there are regulations and a certain conduct that must be taken to ensure there is a comfortable, fair, and ideal environment for FAF.

Because I don't understand what a real FAF moderator goes through, I can't assume much, however I do take to noticing things that might come across as odd or peculiar. Generally on the discord it is ideal, at least in working with the other mods, that we communicate with one to the best we can, as we attempt to keep track of noteworthy actions that should be recorded and given transparency to the administrator JJ. There have been several times in which the nature of an issue has challenged the members of the moderators there to consider the weight of a decision, and often they are discussed with the best intent of recognizing the potential of future problems, and depending on what it might entail, decisively act to adjust accordingly, if it is deemed necessary. As a group I say the moderators act fairly well and react appropriately, perhaps in part to the better tools available already, which ties to some the issues touched upon, though I wonder how difficult it may be to be communicative with your peers, even when every moderator is their own agent. Again, it is likely not a fair point to bring up, when I have no clue what being a moderator on FAF is like, though I do suspect there are ways to cross that bridge.

When it comes to direct interaction on the discord I am quite open and expressive with the community there, I'd say most of the mods are, and overall are well received. We do receive the general complaint of rules or actions, whether it comes down to the layout and design of the channels offered (we're open to feedback, let us know!), or when we must step in where there is a complication. We have had trouble in the past about certain members and their behavior towards others, and enough of these have offered a glimpse into the different kinds of situations we sometimes get. Typically action taken against the offender is discussed unless it is indisputably evident of misconduct, yet we still like to report these to ensure that there is a level of consensus and appropriate understanding of the situation. Be it profile photos uploaded or names, or much worse, the team on discord have done a fair job of communicating this with the offender, and providing as much of an opportunity to make corrective action or to make it clear of the nature of their consequences.

Does this make us any better or equal? Likely not; in fact I'd go as far to say that we are meme-worthy at least in the eyes of most who cross between the client and the discord (I'd like to think I've got a decent sense of humor about it). Still, I feel it would mean something to at least offer some insight into that part of FAF, that while optimisim is a waning candle, I think there are still ways and opportunities for the mods on FAF to consider the way they handle transparency, and to be reminded that communication is vital, which we all know that's clear from the interaction of many mods here :lol: . But perhaps there are ways that we can look to improving the conditions now, and I'm certain we can if we look around at other options and sources to inspire us to move in the right direction.

Good work chatting this place up everyone! Wow!

Statistics: Posted by Ze Dogfather — 13 Nov 2017, 07:47


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2017-11-13T01:03:13+02:00 2017-11-13T01:03:13+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156412#p156412 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]> Statistics: Posted by surtsan — 13 Nov 2017, 01:03


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2017-11-13T00:46:42+02:00 2017-11-13T00:46:42+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156411#p156411 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
Between 1.4.2017 - 30.10.2017

there seems to be 266 bans
from that 210 is russian smurfs

So that is 56 bans.

Note that this number doesn't represent reports where nothing wrong happened or reports that ended up with just a warning.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 13 Nov 2017, 00:46


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2017-11-12T22:32:27+02:00 2017-11-12T22:32:27+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156402#p156402 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
TheKoopa wrote:
speed2 wrote:......



I would just like to say that mai would reset logs every so often so none of that content would ever make it into aeolus

Otherwise, time to get the popcorn for the drama nom nom

Well it did get in.
afaik this reset got added after this incident.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 12 Nov 2017, 22:32


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2017-11-12T22:18:20+02:00 2017-11-12T22:18:20+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156400#p156400 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]> Statistics: Posted by Viba — 12 Nov 2017, 22:18


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2017-11-12T22:10:59+02:00 2017-11-12T22:10:59+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156398#p156398 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
speed2 wrote:
Lets solve the easy ones
There were some that were certainly in a gray area, such as the client ban that utilized aeolus rules on a rule-breaking activity taking place in a non-aeolus channel.

You were spamming MAI in different channel to get very inappropriate content into aeolus later with !chain command. That is no gray area. You knew very well what you're doing, so did others who got banned for this.
If you think it was funny, well it wasn't.


There's a very good reason why discussing mod actions is not allowed in public. It's because it always gets into troll fest and you get 1% of constructive talk if you're lucky.


To judge the rest, I have to watch the game first...



I would just like to say that mai would reset logs every so often so none of that content would ever make it into aeolus

Otherwise, time to get the popcorn for the drama nom nom

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 12 Nov 2017, 22:10


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2017-11-12T22:04:26+02:00 2017-11-12T22:04:26+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156397#p156397 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>

@speed2, the last time i went and asked for a 2nd opinion everyone redirected me to write a forum message to everyone in the mod team. The only mod that would respond was Voodoo (the one who banned me in the first place).

Preferably a date so I can find that PM


Again not properly adjusted to my statement. I would like to see some anoynmous stats, without any name or replay, about how many irc and client bans took place in the past month. That is called transparency and not public shaming.

I asked for the client bans, it will be up to server guys to run the right queries to get that. So once they have time. To IRC bans, there is pretty much no way to get that stat.


Then the community might understand, that mods are too overworked to put a proper banning system in place, like i suggested one.

For the beginning we would need 2-3 new mods.
I dont agree that your proposed system is a proper one. I would idealy change the way you can appeal, so it's in the client, but that requires coding.


But breaking rules in aeolus is something completly different and should be punished with aeolus restrictions.

Well as I said, it used to be and still is the case sometimes. It depends on severity of missbehaving.
So just IRC bans aren't a thing of the past.

speed2 wrote:
That thread only existed because it was theh only way of telling people why they were banned. As I said above ^^ with the new system we can include the ban reason and as you could have seen in preview posts, the banned user will see the reason.
Mephi wrote:Yes i know, but that only supports my point of view in that part. Because it was the only source of "transparency".

Quite often in worked the opposite way. Whenever someone got banned, his groupies started a riot in aeolus or forums, saying nothing constructive.
Same for having there name of the mod who issues the ban.

So all this isn't a speculation that this system could be an improvement. He had it before and I think it's better now.


Yet again, i only get the "wont work, too much work" excuse. Of how many bans are we speaken here? 10 a month?

More than 10, I'll share the numbers once I have them. But now that I think of that, the number might not be very accurate, as since Super and his russian gang started smurfing, we surely banned more than 300 of their smurf accounts.

Just set a deadline, the respective player gets a message as soon the report appears, then he has for example 2 days to respond. An addition could come with the new moderator tools, the respective player gets a popup everytime he logs in during that time and hasnt decided yet what to do.

For now take it that anything that requires coding is tabu. You have to work with what we have. There are dozens of things that would be improved if someone coded it.


Sure nobody expects a perfect system, but we should try to make it better than it is now, because there are continous complains about moderation, i can recall at least 3 threads of this kind.

I would say it's still from the very same people who always manage to get themselves banned.


Neither you speed nor voodoo replied to the team of 3 system, although it could solve some issues. Sure it would cut down sovereignity of the mod team and would feel strange in the beginning, yet it has potential.

Im pretty sure I've replied to it. I dont think it's a good idea, just a waste of time. One person is enough to make the decission, and if he's not sure, he can always ask others for opinions (and that's not rare to ask others).


One thing I'd like to know if those who suggest all the changes on how the moderators should work have any experience with moderating a gaming comunity. I think some could change their opinions and understand why we do things the way we do if they're tried being a moderator, all the things you have to do, and all the clear cases you'll solve.
I also had slightly different opinions about moderators and their work before I've joined.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 12 Nov 2017, 22:04


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2017-11-12T20:11:54+02:00 2017-11-12T20:11:54+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156376#p156376 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
What could be improved is to lower the threshold of contacting moderators after a ban has been applied, I agree this current method of having to pm the irc mod group here isn't too easy for everyone. In some cases the reason for the ban might also not be enough in the ban message, but would require a dialogue between the player and the mod so that the perpetrator actually understands what rule was broken, how, and not to do it again. If the banned person doesn't even understand what rule they broke, or how, it is easy to raise fingers towards moderation. One solution could be if you could use your FAF account, post a thread in a ban apply area so that only the thread starter and moderators would see the thread in question. Another solution would be for banned players to auto-join e.g. #banned-area where they can contact the moderators online, users in that channel would not be able to discuss with each other and any non-banned players could not join either.

I see Morax found some old post of mine regarding chat rules. This is my personal opinion, but I still feel some punishments have been unnecessarily harsh. Sometimes punishments just add fuel to the fire instead of stopping it. FAF is an internet community, and as such I at least don't expect people to behave like they would in e.g. face to face conversations. Internet conversations tend to more free and colorful with additional internet culture humor. Currently I'd rate FAF even more strict than imgur, which I already find a fairly strict community when it comes to rules. I don't decide the rules here on FAF, but a more lenient approach towards the "smaller crimes" would probably make the community and moderation overall healthier. I'm not saying that someone who insults another player should not be punished, I'm saying that people shouldn't have to tiptoe when chatting and having fun in aeolus or in-game, in case they say something someone might find offensive. I say this with my experience from another community where I was active, and which had basically same rules but more lenient interpretation of them. That community had nearly no moderation problems that I constantly see here. Overall this is probably more a question of policy, like if we want the community to be PG-13 or PG-18.

I also would favour bans showing the moderator who issued them, instead of making them anonymous.

The classic errare humanum est applies here too, but with proper communication we can solve problems.

Statistics: Posted by Viba — 12 Nov 2017, 20:11


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2017-11-12T17:44:04+02:00 2017-11-12T17:44:04+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156367#p156367 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11902&start=50

Even Giebmasse, who is now a mod, stated how it is a bit harsh in some ways. I am not saying or sourcing to defend Commando but it just is - interesting.

Overall a nice thread and glad to see Voodoo reverted his decision on some things. I have not had too much a problem with the mods as of late other than knowing they don't play as much so they get a bad initial feeling on the current "going-ons." If you interacted with the community more it would be easier to make decisions without backlash!!

Well done, all, though.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 12 Nov 2017, 17:44


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2017-11-12T16:30:05+02:00 2017-11-12T16:30:05+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15421&p=156363#p156363 <![CDATA[Re: On Moderation]]>
About the 3 man team. It is just too much work. Only 5 (6 with Tex) moderators are active at the moment and we have still 42 reports left.

An example what you have to do to solve a report:

1. Read the report.
2. Look into the name history.
3. Search at the forum if it's his first offence or not.
4. View the replay. (mostly it is broken and we have to ask for a hard copy first, happend 2 times today)
5. Decide what to do and post it at the forum.
6. Pm an admin to enter the ban with the reason.
7. Pm the reporter with the result.

As you see it is a lot of work. If I add one more step it would only take longer. I would have to wait for 2 mods to come online and view also the replay. It would increase the work a lot. That's why if something goes wrong, the player can pm us and we discuss it.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 12 Nov 2017, 16:30


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