Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2018-05-31T11:41:19+02:00 /feed.php?f=2&t=16112 2018-05-31T11:41:19+02:00 2018-05-31T11:41:19+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=164311#p164311 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Also bring back/ create Avatars for reaching certain ladder barriers. like 1k 1.5k 2k and so forth. as incentive to play and improve

Statistics: Posted by Platinumizer — 31 May 2018, 11:41


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2018-05-29T10:46:32+02:00 2018-05-29T10:46:32+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=164072#p164072 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]>
keyser wrote:
a tutorial included to client (not a tutorial video), would help that a lot, but is it even possible ?


I guess you mean some sort of ui overlay that highlights certain features and lets the user do it's first clicks? I looked for something like that for the java client, but as soon as you google something like "java ui tutorial" you get tutorials on how to program uis not how to program ui tutorials :(

Statistics: Posted by Brutus5000 — 29 May 2018, 10:46


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2018-05-29T10:42:54+02:00 2018-05-29T10:42:54+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=164071#p164071 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]>
Brutus5000 wrote:
While I fixed global leadersboards yesterday I noticed something: from ~500 new registered players there was a total of 850 valid games within 1 week. Number of total (valid) ladder games: 0.
Looks like they aren't even aware of the ladder game mode.


Im pretty sure they know its there since its quite dominantly displayed at least in the phython client; they prob just all think that it doesnt work. They have to wait for a 1200-1400 rated player to search to get a game and i dont think we have more than 5 regular ladder players with that rating. I had to answer dozens of questions like' i have been searching for hours and couldnt get a game, does ladder even work?', and since most new players dont even bother to ask they put ladder in the 'stuff dats broken' category alongside ladder divisions, win ratio etc.. This is a huge problem in my opinion that needs to be adressed (which you guys did in a dev conference without coming up with a solution afaik).

Statistics: Posted by uteten — 29 May 2018, 10:42


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2018-05-29T10:39:42+02:00 2018-05-29T10:39:42+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=164070#p164070 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by keyser — 29 May 2018, 10:39


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2018-05-29T10:29:05+02:00 2018-05-29T10:29:05+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=164069#p164069 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Looks like they aren't even aware of the ladder game mode.

Statistics: Posted by Brutus5000 — 29 May 2018, 10:29


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2018-05-29T04:38:38+02:00 2018-05-29T04:38:38+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=164057#p164057 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]>
Changes to the rating system to me is not a priority. It is ofc not perfect but works well enough.
The whole point is to be able to play automated games against other players of somewhat similar skill level.
Badges and divisions and stuff does not add anything to that. It is mostly just cosmetics.

To me, and I would believe a lot of other players too, the maps is what really matters.
If one really dislikes a significant part of the ladder maps one is much more likely to not play ladder or even quit playing FAF altogether.
I am on the verge of stop playing myself, for that reason alone.

Almost all RTS, MOBAS and similar that have maps also have a ban system.
It makes the player feel more in control and lowers frustration.
For a lot of players hitting that ladder button does not come easy and I would assume that a light ban system is the most effective remedy for that and has the potential to bring more players to ladder.

The MOBA style ban system feels way to convoluted and unnecessarily complicated. One reason for this is that MOBA games on average is a lot longer then the average FAF ladder game so having to ban maps for every individual game is too much of a hassle and takes too much time in comparison to how long the game lasts.
The ban system Starcraft 2 has feels better, simpler and more time effective.
A separate map ban window where players can pick x amount of maps to ban. Changeable at any time between games ofc.
Starcraft 2 has a fairly heavy ban system where one can ban around a third of the maps (or something like that).
I would personally not be against that but I can see it getting too much flak and turn off people too.
So a nice initial compromise could be a light ban of 2-5 maps. Getting to upvote maps as Vodoo suggested would be really nice too but I think for most players being able to avoid a few of the maps one dislikes the most would make the biggest difference.
Almost every session I encounter players who insta quit on certain maps they really dislike and find no joy in playing.


And for those who is concerned about 20km maps then being banned and not played there are now six 20km maps in the pool. So if for example every player can ban 3 maps each there are still three 20km maps left in the pool if one player uses all bans for 20km maps. And the other player, if he likes 20km maps, he has probably banned 5km maps so that evens things out a bit anyway.

In addition a ban and upvote system would gather a detailed database of which maps most players dislikes and prefer to play making it easier for every new map pool to be more tuned to what players prefer and enjoy to play.

TL;DR I strongly feel like a simple and light ban system would lower frustration for a lot of players significantly and increase the amount of people playing ladder.

Statistics: Posted by Cancle — 29 May 2018, 04:38


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2018-05-28T14:03:34+02:00 2018-05-28T14:03:34+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=164009#p164009 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by Rowey — 28 May 2018, 14:03


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2018-05-22T23:38:27+02:00 2018-05-22T23:38:27+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=163739#p163739 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Number of samples is critical . When I started playing FAF(after GPG ended), I could find a ladder game within half a minute , 2 minutes tops. This is not the case now,and it inadvertently makes things more difficult. Ladder experience is good when players are generally of the same potential. This is the golden rule. Unfortunately , this is not always the case, besides smurfs. And people naturally quit.
One solution could be scores being reset every 6 or 12 months. And rapidly correcting( a more drastic coefficient of correction) one player's rank according to result. Lost by a very bad player(according to rating) go quickly down , and vice versa.( go very high if you win a much better player). Not the frugal 8 points or so, but considerably more.
Stop giving rankings for games played outside ladder. Once we used to call them custom . My opinions were many times expressed about this. This is cancer for the game and will eventually lead to a state like GPG at its end. Unless very strict regulations exist about this, global rank is as good as no rank. Of course the ultimate solution would be a 2v2 ladder, or 3v3 ladder. But it takes a lot of work , a lot of willing players, and fewer pathological egos. So , it is not going to work. But it's easier to fix global ranking. Don't count for rank if a certain map is repeated x times/ per amount of time. If there's no sea map /per amount of time, if there is not a combination of all map sizes per amount of time, and of course default rules which is already there.Heavily modified custom games(resource enhancements, unit restrictions), could stay there to be played casually by the rest. By sanitizing custom "ranked" games we will create a more healthy appetite for the game and more people willing to fight in ladder.
But ladder should always strive to match players according to their skill and this is not happening now. I know this because , this is my reality. I often happen to win in the same day players 400 points higher and have my ass handed to me by players 400 points lower. So, there...

Statistics: Posted by prodromos — 22 May 2018, 23:38


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2018-04-21T15:19:55+02:00 2018-04-21T15:19:55+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=162789#p162789 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 21 Apr 2018, 15:19


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2018-04-21T14:51:39+02:00 2018-04-21T14:51:39+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=162788#p162788 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]>
Mad`Mozart wrote:
Every time map veto is brought up, i look at the maps i enjoy the most playing (20km) and the fact that there always only 2-3 of them in the pool makes me think its a horrible idea. While people around my rating generally developed some idea how to play this game, majority still hates those maps because they suck at the game and most likely going to veto them out. So on top of the maps being rare, i will have to deal with racism as well. Already been there in zep times when i actively played ladder and got 2 roanoke within a 6 months interval. I rather endure maps i dont like too much, can always ragequit if i want.

Like I wrote in my first post, every player should pick 5 maps in a pre game pick and ban, with lets say 2 bans per player. from the in total 10 games chosen by the players one will be selected at random, 10% pick rate does not seem bad imo. However, it might even be a good idea to reduce the picks to 3 and bans remain at 2 or so, which increase the liklyhood of your map being chosen even further. Map divercity might suffer however...

Or lets say we copy League of legends pick and ban even further and let the players ban one map then pick 3 maps each, then ban 1 again and then pick the remaining 2 maps. Hope you get my point...

Statistics: Posted by HopeAndWonder — 21 Apr 2018, 14:51


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2018-04-21T14:43:25+02:00 2018-04-21T14:43:25+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=162787#p162787 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 21 Apr 2018, 14:43


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2018-04-21T14:27:02+02:00 2018-04-21T14:27:02+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=162786#p162786 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]>
Sheeo wrote:
How about a "picks and bans" style pre-game ala what's common in MOBA's? This lets you strategize a bit and ban out maps you think your opponent is going to pick and don't want to play.


As for the complete seperation of ladder and global ratings, I believe it was done to prevent abuse, which as you point out indeed doesn't work. I agree that we should reinstate -- if anything a limited -- effect to global rating from ladder games.


Yeah Sheeo a MOBA style pre-game picks and bans was what i tried to describe originally, nice to see that people also think its not a bad idea, also as you said it adds a bit of strategyzing before the actual game begins, like what faction to pick etc..

Voodoo wrote:
A new ladder ranking system is exactly what we need (+ team matchmaker). The system should be as easy as possible. People have to know the amount of points they can win/lose after a battle. This isn't the case at the moment. Furthermore a little veto system can be pure gold. Let's say the map pool has 20 maps. You can vote for and againt 2 maps, so we have 8 votes. That means you won't see 4 maps from the pool at the end. This won't break map diversity and can work fine.


Nice that you also agree Voodoo, to me it just gives the impression that reworking the rating system does not have a high priority/is underrated. In my opinion thats the biggest point to increase players in the ladder and ultimatly in all of FAF. I mean I'm fine with a differnt style of rating system from what I/you descriebed aslong as it shows your skill to yourself and others in an obvious sexy visual way and gives player actually the motivation to climb the ladder. This last point is missing at all in my opinion.

Statistics: Posted by HopeAndWonder — 21 Apr 2018, 14:27


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2018-04-20T09:41:07+02:00 2018-04-20T09:41:07+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=162757#p162757 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 20 Apr 2018, 09:41


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2018-04-20T09:10:46+02:00 2018-04-20T09:10:46+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=162756#p162756 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 20 Apr 2018, 09:10


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2018-04-20T08:54:58+02:00 2018-04-20T08:54:58+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=16112&p=162755#p162755 <![CDATA[Re: Suggestions on how to improve FAF Ladder]]> ^ This is a statement about veto in general.
My previous one was toward the strategy to remove the map that you opponent like a lot (and that you may also like it) and in the end ending with some games on map both doesn't like to play.
but yeah depends of map pool size and number of veto (the less veto you have, the less interesting the veto mechanism become though)

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 20 Apr 2018, 08:54


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