Forged Alliance Forever

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T22:39:25+02:00

So I had a discussion with sheeo and he had one with morax. At the end we agreed that there aren't clear or comprehensive rules about tournaments. That's why I will talk to FtXCommando about settings up new rules. The moderator team will ensure that the rules are respected. I unbanned Blackheart and Farmsletje as we don't have clear guidelines at the moment. Sheeo donated the price money to Farmsletje.

We will work on this topic as a team to prevent similar situations in the future.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 19 Jul 2018, 22:39

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T19:35:56+02:00

who doesn't love arguing with feather? :shrugs:

Statistics: Posted by ____ — 19 Jul 2018, 19:35

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T18:46:48+02:00

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
I like how you are assuming I am a new player

It's a pretty solid assumption to assume the guy arguing with feather who has named himself voodoo is cuck backwards, is new..

Statistics: Posted by biass — 19 Jul 2018, 18:46

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T18:39:36+02:00

I like how you are assuming I am a new player, even though you made your forum account yesterday and have not even linked your faf account xD

I also like how you are talking about Zep the whole time, even though noone has even mentioned him once in the entire thread. The subject you are relating to happened years ago, which makes it irrelevant now anyway.
All you did until now is throwing shade at other people, and judging them based on things that aren't relevant or just plain subjective. Especially concerning Voodoo. Maybe you should use a more rationalistic approach instead of making assumptions over the emotional state of the mods and their ability to judge objectively on certain topics.

Or say it's your opinion xD

Statistics: Posted by ____ — 19 Jul 2018, 18:39

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T17:43:10+02:00

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
kcucsioodoov wrote:
The person that knows nothing accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about?

I am not accusing you of anything, I simply asked you a question, concerning which you obviously don't have an answer for. Literally all I did, and everyone can see it.

kcucsioodoov wrote:
There is zero chance that voodoo would treat speed2 breaking the rules the same as some random user. I have years of experience where mods were abusing users for months and purposely being assholes. It took forever for superior mods like voodoo to take action against those mods simply because they didn't want to look bad. Same reason they don't allow people to discuss mod abuse in aeolus, they want to create the narrative on the people they subjugate.

Those are very serious claims. Would you mind sharing those experiences, so we can see if you are not just making this up? If you dont want to share it with everyone feel free to PM me.

kcucsioodoov wrote:
How long have you been playing faf? Were you around when faf was moved from gpg to faf? There is zero chance anyone with history with faf would ever say what you said after what sheeo did to zep, it was absolutely disgusting. After all zep did for the community??

I really don't know why this matters, but yea. I have been here for a long time. I remember buying the original game from a local store in my town. That was about 11 years ago. Do you think you know better, just because you have played this game for a long time?

I am not going to comment on the other stuff, since it happened years ago. If you want to impress anybody with your findings you should at least back them up with FACTS. Otherwise most will classify you as someone who is only here to throw shade at others.

kcucsioodoov wrote:
The way faf was taken from zep to be turned into what it is today is one of the most saddest things that ever happened.

How does any of this nonsense have to do with the topic. Just answer my question.

It is all open knowledge. If you want to know faf history you can not be lazy and find out yourself. I rather talk to people that actually remember what happened and the disrespect that was shown to him after all he did.

In terms of mod abuse. There was a certain mod that went around crazy abusing flaming people and closing games for no reason. You got banned if talked about his mod abuse in aeolus, it was insane retarded. Superior mods did not remove his mod for quite some time for the reasons I stated above. I am not going to post the mods name because simply if you were around during that time you would know what I am talking about.

I really don't care about some random new faf guy questioning me on well known faf history. I am here talking to the mods/older players about what has happened to faf and how their promises have fallen flat. The saddest part is how they can't even fix the code for the replay server that they flamed zep over.

Statistics: Posted by kcucsioodoov — 19 Jul 2018, 17:43

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T17:34:50+02:00

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
Sheeo, I did not make a complaint through official channels, so that is my fault I guess. I would say though, that if the people in charge are so out of touch with the community that they don't realize that this is a persistent problem and don't hear about it with the amount of fuss that was raised, that is a pretty serious issue in and of itself. Not directing that at you personally, because I know the role you fill, but generally speaking about the mod team.

The problem I have here is that all of this just kind of happened with no official communication that I could find anywhere. The ban was appropriate, I am not arguing that. The timing, place, etc of the ban just raised a lot of questions for me.

Understood, we'll work on structuring this better. I've personally felt a bit too much out of touch with this tournament which we're paying prize money for as well.

BRNKoINSANITY wrote:
Also, the thread is literally still up where speed2 is flipping the bird at someone, so.........

I don't know the details here, but I'd just like to note that speed2 isn't a moderator anymore.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 19 Jul 2018, 17:34

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T17:25:00+02:00

kcucsioodoov wrote:
The person that knows nothing accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about?

I am not accusing you of anything, I simply asked you a question, concerning which you obviously don't have an answer for. Literally all I did, and everyone can see it.

kcucsioodoov wrote:
There is zero chance that voodoo would treat speed2 breaking the rules the same as some random user. I have years of experience where mods were abusing users for months and purposely being assholes. It took forever for superior mods like voodoo to take action against those mods simply because they didn't want to look bad. Same reason they don't allow people to discuss mod abuse in aeolus, they want to create the narrative on the people they subjugate.

Those are very serious claims. Would you mind sharing those experiences, so we can see if you are not just making this up? If you dont want to share it with everyone feel free to PM me.

kcucsioodoov wrote:
How long have you been playing faf? Were you around when faf was moved from gpg to faf? There is zero chance anyone with history with faf would ever say what you said after what sheeo did to zep, it was absolutely disgusting. After all zep did for the community??

I really don't know why this matters, but yea. I have been here for a long time. I remember buying the original game from a local store in my town. That was about 11 years ago. Do you think you know better, just because you have played this game for a long time?

I am not going to comment on the other stuff, since it happened years ago. If you want to impress anybody with your findings you should at least back them up with FACTS. Otherwise most will classify you as someone who is only here to throw shade at others.

kcucsioodoov wrote:
The way faf was taken from zep to be turned into what it is today is one of the most saddest things that ever happened.

How does any of this nonsense have to do with the topic. Just answer my question.

Statistics: Posted by ____ — 19 Jul 2018, 17:25

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T17:20:55+02:00

As far as previous offenses go, I specifically recall games where ---

-both players were watching the stream and actively commenting on the game from bird's eye view, and celebrating the fact that they ruined the cast and focus shifted to a different game.

- both players agreeing to go all aurora spam on a 10k+ sized navy map, then one player ctl-k'ing because he just got tired of it, giving the win to the other person

- both players running a mod that caused an RGB "breathe" effect on the player colors, making it nearly impossible to tell what was going on in the game, a mod that was not approved to be in the tournament

- both players going t2 at start of game and swapping spawns, wasting somewhere around 7 minutes before even starting their builds

Apparently, the ban revolves around "unsportsmanlike conduct" in faf in general. That does make sense, but again the question is why they got banned now and not before. I suppose that Voodoo answered that one though, as he personally watched the replay and that is what brought on the discussion.

Sheeo, I did not make a complaint through official channels, so that is my fault I guess. I would say though, that if the people in charge are so out of touch with the community that they don't realize that this is a persistent problem and don't hear about it with the amount of fuss that was raised, that is a pretty serious issue in and of itself. Not directing that at you personally, because I know the role you fill, but generally speaking about the mod team.

The problem I have here is that all of this just kind of happened with no official communication that I could find anywhere. The ban was appropriate, I am not arguing that. The timing, place, etc of the ban just raised a lot of questions for me.

Also, the thread is literally still up where speed2 is flipping the bird at someone, so.........

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 19 Jul 2018, 17:20

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T17:49:12+02:00

Voodoo,

May I ask why such harsh action was taken now when I in the past have made complaints against things like people smurfing in a tourney? And don't say this never happened as there's plenty of cases to exemplify such as the two Austrian players who won a 2v2 match during one of Cookie's events.

I know they were banned from tourneys later on, but it took over a week to get that done. The "favoritism" accusation stems from the haste at which action was taken here.

Also, as the TD, I know full and well exotic was watching the stream the whole time:

Spoiler: show

Exotic and I were in good communication the entire event, knowing that "coaching", meming, etc was going on.

As the event moved along the FaF service crapped out many times, creating a lot of annoyance and frustration with hosting. I, myself, was about to quit out after people told me I was a jerk for allowing the Winterduel match to count.

By the time the final took place, bh and Farm were pretty annoyed as well, with good reason, to care much more. It was a long day and gathering up everyone to ask them to try and host ten times and refaf reboot made it lame.

I ask you to please consider the fact that it was well viewed by the TD, moderation (Exotic), and many viewers that both players were joking around most of the time.

I allowed them to coach, I allowed them to play like that, and etc.

If anyone deserves a ban it is myself for this all and creating such a joke of it all.

I encouraged the two to just end it quickly in the end as I needed to leave. Don't know why that was not stated but it's the truth.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 19 Jul 2018, 17:15

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T16:56:37+02:00

The person that knows nothing accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about?

You seem to know a lot for an user who joined today.

Statistics: Posted by Louvegarde — 19 Jul 2018, 16:56

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T16:51:49+02:00

QuestionMarkNoob wrote:
kcucsioodoov wrote:I guarantee you if speed2 put up a nazi sign you would give a more lenient sentence than if someone else did.

Do you have anything to back up that claim, or is that just a wild assumption on a person you have never met?

The person that knows nothing accusing me of not knowing what I am talking about?

There is zero chance that voodoo would treat speed2 breaking the rules the same as some random user. I have years of experience where mods were abusing users for months and purposely being assholes. It took forever for superior mods like voodoo to take action against those mods simply because they didn't want to look bad. Same reason they don't allow people to discuss mod abuse in aeolus, they want to create the narrative on the people they subjugate.

How long have you been playing faf? Were you around when faf was moved from gpg to faf? There is zero chance anyone with history with faf would ever say what you said after what sheeo did to zep, it was absolutely disgusting. After all zep did for the community??

The way faf was taken from zep to be turned into what it is today is one of the most saddest things that ever happened.

Statistics: Posted by kcucsioodoov — 19 Jul 2018, 16:51

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T16:26:01+02:00

kcucsioodoov wrote:
I guarantee you if speed2 put up a nazi sign you would give a more lenient sentence than if someone else did.

Do you have anything to back up that claim, or is that just a wild assumption on a person you have never met?

Statistics: Posted by ____ — 19 Jul 2018, 16:26

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T15:56:44+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
FtXCommando wrote:No tourney rules were broken and the TD had no issues with the two players doing what they did. Mod team cannot step in and punish people monetarily as that is my responsibility (for community funds) or the donor responsibility (for private). Mod team can’t really ban them from tournies for breaking a rule that doesn’t exist.

The bans were put in place for breaking FAF rules not tourney rules, hence the FAF ban.

When we started with FAF there wasn't a clear structure about how tournaments are handled or who is allowed to host a tournament. The goal in a tournament was to win an avatar. The tournament director has to be officially confirmed. Only these tournament directors had the right to hand out avatars by asking a moderator. The TD himself can set up his own tournament rules. At this time I was responsible for all of it. So I created some simple rules:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3240
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3312

When Tokyto was promoted to the PC councillor, he took over the management of tournaments and directors. The problem here is that no one talked about this topic at all with me. Neither something was written down. Anyway there wasn't any issue that I know and it was running fine. Now is FtXCommando in place and is up to take over. He is someone who has more time as I and is up to put a lot of work into it. That's why I gave him the rights to approve and edit posts in the tournament subforum. So he can work with the tournament directors and can take over a tournament if the TD is ill or something like this. I'm open to discuss new rules and change the one we have. But some rules like: "I. Tournament Directors are not allowed to play in their own tournaments." have to stay in place. The reason is simple. You can win money and so you could set up a tournament that favors your play style.

About the topic here. The [E] clan has nothing to do with it and there is no favoritism. I personally don't like it that we have modifications that are changing the balance but this isn't something new. There were a lot tournaments with other balance modifictions like the diamond cup. I checked the tournament results at the next day as I was up to give out the avatars. There I saw that Farmsletje won against Blackheart and I thought, how is that possible? So I watched the replay as it could be a nice fight. All I found was a horrible game where Blackheart wasn't even giving orders to his units. So he lost on purpose. Everyone can watch the replays and see it himself. And this is just not sportsmanlike and needs punishment. Thats not how a tournament should end. An other point is that you can win money in it but as FtXCommando said, this isn't in moderation hands.

I guarantee you if speed2 put up a nazi sign you would give a more lenient sentence than if someone else did. speed2 put up a vulgar middle finger in the other thread and he is not even banned as we speak.

Statistics: Posted by kcucsioodoov — 19 Jul 2018, 15:56

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T15:54:57+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
No tourney rules were broken and the TD had no issues with the two players doing what they did. Mod team cannot step in and punish people monetarily as that is my responsibility (for community funds) or the donor responsibility (for private). Mod team can’t really ban them from tournies for breaking a rule that doesn’t exist.

The bans were put in place for breaking FAF rules not tourney rules, hence the FAF ban.

Not only did they rig one match. In a previous match on the small 1v1 ice map blackheart was cheating and telling farms what his opponent has. Check the stream.

This has easily got out of hand where you put your fun at the expense of the community.

Statistics: Posted by kcucsioodoov — 19 Jul 2018, 15:54

Re: There is a s[E]rious problem with favoritism around FAF

2018-07-19T13:41:30+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
No tourney rules were broken and the TD had no issues with the two players doing what they did. Mod team cannot step in and punish people monetarily as that is my responsibility (for community funds) or the donor responsibility (for private). Mod team can’t really ban them from tournies for breaking a rule that doesn’t exist.

The bans were put in place for breaking FAF rules not tourney rules, hence the FAF ban.

When we started with FAF there wasn't a clear structure about how tournaments are handled or who is allowed to host a tournament. The goal in a tournament was to win an avatar. The tournament director has to be officially confirmed. Only these tournament directors had the right to hand out avatars by asking a moderator. The TD himself can set up his own tournament rules. At this time I was responsible for all of it. So I created some simple rules:

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3240
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3312

When Tokyto was promoted to the PC councillor, he took over the management of tournaments and directors. The problem here is that no one talked about this topic at all with me. Neither something was written down. Anyway there wasn't any issue that I know and it was running fine. Now is FtXCommando in place and is up to take over. He is someone who has more time as I and is up to put a lot of work into it. That's why I gave him the rights to approve and edit posts in the tournament subforum. So he can work with the tournament directors and can take over a tournament if the TD is ill or something like this. I'm open to discuss new rules and change the one we have. But some rules like: "I. Tournament Directors are not allowed to play in their own tournaments." have to stay in place. The reason is simple. You can win money and so you could set up a tournament that favors your play style.

About the topic here. The [E] clan has nothing to do with it and there is no favoritism. I personally don't like it that we have modifications that are changing the balance but this isn't something new. There were a lot tournaments with other balance modifictions like the diamond cup. I checked the tournament results at the next day as I was up to give out the avatars. There I saw that Farmsletje won against Blackheart and I thought, how is that possible? So I watched the replay as it could be a nice fight. All I found was a horrible game where Blackheart wasn't even giving orders to his units. So he lost on purpose. Everyone can watch the replays and see it himself. And this is just not sportsmanlike and needs punishment. Thats not how a tournament should end. An other point is that you can win money in it but as FtXCommando said, this isn't in moderation hands.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 19 Jul 2018, 13:41