Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-12T07:05:44+02:00

4 pages and I am not too sure what's the debate about ?

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 12 Jul 2013, 07:05

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-11T04:22:50+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
Firewall wrote:Look at this, static PD both air and land do not have more DPS than mobile units similar. However, they are not UP as they have the advantage of a faster build time and a longer range.

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 05,UEB2204

you are kidding? That land has 2x range of mobile, AA has 1.1 range of mobile, land take 2x more dmg like mobile, AA take less dmg like mobile.
land has 50% build time of mobile, AA has 90% build time of mobile.

Thats realy no more dps/range/buildtime ?! On what type of drugs you are going?

They're obviously not as good as the ones you're on

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 11 Jul 2013, 04:22

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-10T21:00:44+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
has similar feeling from that..

But you started the thread...

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 10 Jul 2013, 21:00

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-10T20:32:00+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
RoundTabler wrote:like nobody should be taking it seriously.

has similar feeling from that..

Explain?

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 10 Jul 2013, 20:32

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-10T19:50:36+02:00

RoundTabler wrote:
like nobody should be taking it seriously.

has similar feeling from that..

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 10 Jul 2013, 19:50

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-10T16:09:15+02:00

Really? I must be feeling original today.

But really, most of this discussion is silly. This thread feels like a giant troll fest, like nobody should be taking it seriously.

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 10 Jul 2013, 16:09

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-10T15:56:38+02:00

RoundTabler wrote:
Seems fine to me.

I'm pretty sure I have never seen anyone voice this opinion before.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 10 Jul 2013, 15:56

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-10T15:52:48+02:00

According to the unitDB, mobile has 4 less range, and ~1 less dps. Mobile costs about half of what static does, but has 1/2 the health. Static has 4 more intel radius and can be built on water.

Seems fine to me. Units of almost identical damage, one that costs 2 times the other, with twice the health. One can move, one can go on water.

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 10 Jul 2013, 15:52

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-10T15:22:32+02:00

Firewall wrote:
Look at this, static PD both air and land do not have more DPS than mobile units similar. However, they are not UP as they have the advantage of a faster build time and a longer range.

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 05,UEB2204

you are kidding? That land has 2x range of mobile, AA has 1.1 range of mobile, land take 2x more dmg like mobile, AA take less dmg like mobile.
land has 50% build time of mobile, AA has 90% build time of mobile.

Thats realy no more dps/range/buildtime ?! On what type of drugs you are going?

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 10 Jul 2013, 15:22

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-08T16:03:27+02:00

Firewall wrote:
RoundTabler wrote:Ummm. Static seems like it should be better (t1 tank dps vs t1 pd dps).

Static AA generally has the advantage of Range, Firepower, and Armour. The disadvantage is increased cost and the lack of mobility. When it comes to AA, mobile is generally better, because it is more dynamic. It can move to meet the changing threat.

For the air player. You must consider that if your opponent has gone for heavy investment in ground AA, then he is lighter on something else. Because he has devoted land factories to building AA, you could build 100% tanks and win the land fight. The benefit derived from building air, is that he has now spent resources on AA. If you simply choose not to engage with air, then his investment is wasted. If he spends more on AA then you spent on air, then this gives you the advantage.

Alternatively, you can go for Tech. If you got T2 Bomber/Gunship, that would defeat his T1 AA. If you got T3 Bombers, that would defeat his T2 AA. AA is highly vunerable to being out teched. Once again. As the air player, you have the luxury of choosing when and where you will attack. You need to exploit this advantage BY NOT SENDING YOUR AIR AGAINST AA.

You should think of this game, as a like a game of chess. Sometimes, the purpose of your attack is not to destroy the target you are attacking. But rather, to divert his AA so that something else is left vunerable. So you can then attack somewhere else. Staying mobile, changing targets, and exploiting your speed advantages over AA are all aspects of air play. If as an air player, you send your air into a fight where you ALLOW then to be defeated, you are doing it wrong. If you have insufficient intel to determine the outcome of a fight, before you engage, you are doing it wrong. Your intel should be comprehensive, and the outcomes of your sorties should be fore-known.

I wasn't objecting to the current balance. I think its fine as it is. T2 flak can take down restorers pretty easy when you've got several.

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 08 Jul 2013, 16:03

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-08T06:38:42+02:00

Firewall wrote:
...usless when it is located at a position which is not under attack.

Same with PD, shields, radar and walls, but those don't seem to be an issue.

Statistics: Posted by Ato0theJ — 08 Jul 2013, 06:38

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-08T06:29:57+02:00

Ato0theJ wrote:
Look at this, static PD both air and land do not have more DPS than mobile units similar. However, they are not UP as they have the advantage of a faster build time and a longer range.

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 05,UEB2204

Please do not try to argue static AA is not good, that extra range helps with targeting t3 air.

I'm not saying that static AA isn't good. What I am saying that Static AA is usless when it is located at a position which is not under attack.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 08 Jul 2013, 06:29

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-08T05:43:24+02:00

Look at this, static PD both air and land do not have more DPS than mobile units similar. However, they are not UP as they have the advantage of a faster build time and a longer range.

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 05,UEB2204

Please do not try to argue static AA is not good, that extra range helps with targeting t3 air.

Statistics: Posted by Ato0theJ — 08 Jul 2013, 05:43

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-08T04:22:22+02:00

RoundTabler wrote:
Ummm. Static seems like it should be better (t1 tank dps vs t1 pd dps).

Static AA generally has the advantage of Range, Firepower, and Armour. The disadvantage is increased cost and the lack of mobility. When it comes to AA, mobile is generally better, because it is more dynamic. It can move to meet the changing threat.

For the air player. You must consider that if your opponent has gone for heavy investment in ground AA, then he is lighter on something else. Because he has devoted land factories to building AA, you could build 100% tanks and win the land fight. The benefit derived from building air, is that he has now spent resources on AA. If you simply choose not to engage with air, then his investment is wasted. If he spends more on AA then you spent on air, then this gives you the advantage.

Alternatively, you can go for Tech. If you got T2 Bomber/Gunship, that would defeat his T1 AA. If you got T3 Bombers, that would defeat his T2 AA. AA is highly vunerable to being out teched. Once again. As the air player, you have the luxury of choosing when and where you will attack. You need to exploit this advantage BY NOT SENDING YOUR AIR AGAINST AA.

You should think of this game, as a like a game of chess. Sometimes, the purpose of your attack is not to destroy the target you are attacking. But rather, to divert his AA so that something else is left vunerable. So you can then attack somewhere else. Staying mobile, changing targets, and exploiting your speed advantages over AA are all aspects of air play. If as an air player, you send your air into a fight where you ALLOW then to be defeated, you are doing it wrong. If you have insufficient intel to determine the outcome of a fight, before you engage, you are doing it wrong. Your intel should be comprehensive, and the outcomes of your sorties should be fore-known.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 08 Jul 2013, 04:22

Re: Air-land Balance

2013-07-08T02:34:41+02:00

Ummm. Static seems like it should be better (t1 tank dps vs t1 pd dps).

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 08 Jul 2013, 02:34