Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-18T22:53:04+02:00

I think I know of a way...

Make the Czar un-targetable and thus attacking units will not fly to the Czars center. Being that the Czar still would have it's hit box it can still take damage. With his in mind we can add child or dummy units to the Cazr we want enemies to attack. The child / dummy units can't attack, move, be selected or seen; instead they allow the czar be to targeted indirectly.

These dummy units would require the same basic stats as the Czar itself and will require hit point and veterancy updates as the parent units stats change. Keep in mind that these dummy units would not be attached to the czar but fly just inside the czars model / hit box at or near locations we want to be attacked. Reason for this is that the Czar may not be able to build or act as an air staging platform with dummy units attached.

Edit: I could 100% script this if I thought it would be used in FAF... Z_Pilot, you interested?

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 18 Feb 2014, 22:53

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-18T22:30:18+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Resin_Smoker wrote:I could script this on a simple stand alone mod if anyone is interested in the idea...

Resin

Do it. I'd love to see the result of this one.

Ok, changing the weapon ranges, break off multi's and other such tricks has no noticeable effect. Best I could do was alter the speed and turn rates then set the ASF to regroup away from the Czar before making another run. However even this is being overrun by the game engine's control as the unit weapons mindlessly force the attack on the Czar.

Pastebin: http://pastebin.com/CFTCJ1Vm

Files: http://www.mediafire.com/download/icfyp ... AR_Fix.rar

Now that being said.... there is another way. Have the beam start from a lower point on the Czar (below the fighter's altitude) but have the FX remain the same. This would 100% work as would a damage mod, which already appears to be the case in FAF.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 18 Feb 2014, 22:30

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-17T18:14:16+02:00

Resin_Smoker wrote:
I could script this on a simple stand alone mod if anyone is interested in the idea...

Resin

Do it. I'd love to see the result of this one.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 17 Feb 2014, 18:14

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-18T00:09:17+02:00

Dragonfire wrote:
What is the problem to micro the asf around the czar?
Tutorial from ColonelSheppard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mNG-5J6ww

-solved the problem-
no Mods needed ...

I disagree... Anything that reduces that amount of micro is always a plus. Just think GAZ UI was created to reduce the amount of in game micro just like that simple fix I was proposing.

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 17 Feb 2014, 17:50

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-17T09:31:41+02:00

What is the problem to micro the asf around the czar?
Tutorial from ColonelSheppard:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mNG-5J6ww

-solved the problem-
no Mods needed ...

Statistics: Posted by Dragonfire — 17 Feb 2014, 09:31

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-17T06:00:07+02:00

I could script this on a simple stand alone mod if anyone is interested in the idea...

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 17 Feb 2014, 06:00

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-17T06:01:30+02:00

D4E_Omit wrote:
Simulated projectiles. All the ballistic projectiles are physically simulated. You can dodge a bullet, avoid an artillery shell or avoid a missile in real time. A plane can collide with a missile, a projectile on a high arc trajectory can collide a plane, and even nuclear missiles can collide with your air force… It’s all accurately simulated.
Thats right from the Faforever.com homepage, I don't get why the CZAR shouldnt be able to kill ASF flying under its beam, it's not like the czar is massive OP for it's price... And a few clicks of micro and your ASF wont even need to get close to the beam..

Problem is that the ASF's cluster up as they attack and pass the Czar. This leads many to believe that the Czar is over powered but this more an issue of how air units attack.

As a solution...

It is possible to add minimum range to an ASF's weapons to force them to break off an attack and circle around before getting under the Czar. This would be simple to do via script and could be applied to all air units only when they're attacking the Czar.
In a nutshell we'd verify a new targets blueprint Id and adjust the weapon minimums as required. Once the Czar is dead or a new target is given, the weapons stats would revert to the ASF's default blueprint.

Assuming that folks want to leave the beam weapon alone, altering the minimum range is the next best option.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 17 Feb 2014, 05:55

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-17T05:28:03+02:00

Is it possible to make the asf's fly higher than the czar's? or lower the czar or something in between so that the asf's would be above the czar when firing on it?

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 17 Feb 2014, 05:28

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-17T03:58:02+02:00

No my friend Czar is weaker. I spend 3hours to trying all experimetnal in many situation. and Czar is weaker. Try it. Best anti air has ahwasa, +can kill everthing in air by groundfire, bomb is big and its not hardest hiting air in move in great formation. best anti ground has cybran bug, much more better like czar. army of 360T1 bug kill 4x faster like czar, czar was near to die, when bug has 50% more hp like when start. What is czar good is against well defense base, with multiple shield. With one T3 shield is ahwasa better.

Kiling submarine? 2xT1submarine had same dmg. best assasin it is only becase it can easyli die and has solid wreck dmg. 16asf take it down. Bug is 35% cheaper = occur in situation when you had 35% less defense and its biger suprise. you can kill czar with everything. TML artilery, flak, slow T1 all is hiting czar. It is carrier in imposible carrier funcion, and factory (most expensive factory) what can be killed in edge of universe after 5 second. With comparing with others air exp its shit.

Imho czar would had somthing like personal shield for yourself and arounding air. Somthing like was in movie independence day http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116629/, whith one is he inspired. Like 50K hp +30K shield with -1000e consume, and this shield give on all freindly air (for one source) what is near(100range) for personal shield (not buble) when air in czar range (=with shield) get dmg, czar shield get dmg too. That is only posibility what i see where czar can be real air carrier and not manevreble kamikadze like is today.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 17 Feb 2014, 03:58

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-16T22:00:44+02:00

Czar isn't the weakest Air Experimental. It's quite possibly the strongest. Give it an arena where you have Air control and it has much better anti-ground than any of the others. It has the strongest AA. It is the best assassin-type unit in the entire game. It is a Factory with absurd BuildPower. It can attack Submarines.

It's not the weakest, it's is (Like every other Aeon unit) the one which requires the most friendly environment. One does not send a Colossus undefended against a player with 50 Broadswords, that's the same thing here.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 16 Feb 2014, 22:00

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-16T21:50:51+02:00

That flak totaly doesnt work right. It is buged, it fire only on end of flak range, only unit what is hiten by CZAR flak are T3 Continentals, because are extremely big. Its useless against restorers(who are not moving too), and totaly useless against ASF.
What beam problem? 16 ASF (10%of czar mass) easily take down czar alone. And 20 easily take down czar with suport.

Look on Ahwasa, ahwasa can take down wit one bomb whole enemy air, it no care how many they are. I give down with one bomb 37 restorers, or 120 ASF. Its bigest threat like beam. Czar is weakest air exp and you want to nerf him ? At first fix that flak issue what doesnt work!

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 16 Feb 2014, 21:50

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-16T20:38:03+02:00

Simulated projectiles. All the ballistic projectiles are physically simulated. You can dodge a bullet, avoid an artillery shell or avoid a missile in real time. A plane can collide with a missile, a projectile on a high arc trajectory can collide a plane, and even nuclear missiles can collide with your air force… It’s all accurately simulated.

Thats right from the Faforever.com homepage, I don't get why the CZAR shouldnt be able to kill ASF flying under its beam, it's not like the czar is massive OP for it's price... And a few clicks of micro and your ASF wont even need to get close to the beam..

Statistics: Posted by D4E_Omit — 16 Feb 2014, 20:38

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-16T20:04:19+02:00

Would be easier the have them ignore the beam damage as pathing is very resource intensive.

Could have a collision box on the Czar so air units can not pass through... Not sure if it's possible as unit collisions are handled by the engine.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 16 Feb 2014, 20:04

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-16T04:26:37+02:00

Still a workaround really. The current system is working, but I think everyone would much rather find a way to tell the ASFs to go by a flight path along the disk, not right through the middle...

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 16 Feb 2014, 04:26

Re: Czar still kills ASF like crazy

2014-02-16T04:03:17+02:00

Beam weapons are still really projectiles and as such it's possible to script "no collide" conditions with specific unit types, unit ID's or game world layers. (I know as I've done it)

This would allow all air units to ignore the beam effect but still allow the beam to damage ground targets.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 16 Feb 2014, 04:03