Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Reclaim

2014-03-04T19:28:16+02:00

Nombringer wrote:
SC-Account wrote:They go for the reclaim cause they are greedy bastards, that's why! Exploiting natural resources no matter how much the damage to the environment is.

Environmental Exploitation Simulator; 2014

Also know to some, as FAF

Zep I believe FAF needs a new direction, let's create this please.

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 04 Mar 2014, 19:28

Re: Reclaim

2014-03-04T08:28:26+02:00

SC-Account wrote:
They go for the reclaim cause they are greedy bastards, that's why! Exploiting natural resources no matter how much the damage to the environment is.

Environmental Exploitation Simulator; 2014

Also know to some, as FAF

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 04 Mar 2014, 08:28

Re: Reclaim

2014-03-04T04:39:05+02:00

I might just pick up on a point which was mentioned earlier. Supreme Commander's economy is unlike most other strategy games. Not only is it a flux economy, but, it is also an exponential growth model. Which, as you may recall starts off very slowly and flat.

Reclaim requires minimal investment in harvesters (engineers, or the ACU) and gives a large influx of mass. Effectively allowing you to kick start your economy and enter into a faster rate of exponential growth sooner. With a step change in mass income. By the early upgrading of mass extractors, or the construction of overwhelming military force. So great is this economy boost it is often worthwhile to sacrifice initial growth to achieve it. Because, the mass influx will out weigh any advantages gained from the initial build time one might otherwise have had.

This is especially critical in the opening phases. A small divergence between two exponential curves (that of yours and your opponent's economies) will result in an ever increasing difference with time. The longer a player is allowed to secure and maintain an economic advantage - the greater that advantage will be. These minor advantages gained from early reclaim usually lead to a decisive victory.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 04 Mar 2014, 04:39

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T21:31:20+02:00

SC-Account wrote:
They go for the reclaim cause they are greedy bastards, that's why! Exploiting natural resources no matter how much the damage to the environment is.

^This

We even have amazing tools that would let us repair the earth by just shooting a beam at it. Instead, we explode countless nukes and leave craters in our wake.

Statistics: Posted by errorblankfield — 27 Feb 2014, 21:31

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T16:02:01+02:00

thanks everyone that really helped!

Statistics: Posted by gogbe — 27 Feb 2014, 16:02

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T13:51:44+02:00

They go for the reclaim cause they are greedy bastards, that's why! Exploiting natural resources no matter how much the damage to the environment is.

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 27 Feb 2014, 13:51

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T10:22:24+02:00

i do not really understand question.... when engineer reclaims it brings 48 mass per second, equivatent of having 24 t1 extractors, but without building them

I don't under stand why everyone goes for the reclaim at the middle of the map every game.

it sounds like seton's cluch map =\
and they go for reclaim as fast as they can to give mass to allie, so they can make more naval/air faster

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 27 Feb 2014, 10:22

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T09:42:55+02:00

In every game, reclaiming stuff is useful. The only time when it isn't, is when you're already gaining mass. This usually only happens if you have a Paragon. Even if, while reclaiming, you're having your storage completely filled up, it can be a bad idea to stop reclaiming. The longer a mass field exists, the more opportunities your opponent will have to take it away from you. Having the reclaim for yourself is not the top priority, the top priority is to deny your enemy the mass. This is the case for maps like Fields of Isis, Ian's Cross and Seton's Clutch. When the enemy has just lost an experimental close to your base, then you can probably wait for the best moment to reclaim, because if an experimental dies there, an engineer won't even get close (but be careful for the UEF hover drones).

That being said, the mass you get from reclaiming is a finite resource, unlike the mass extractors you build everywhere. Building half a dozen factories to pump out units at an incredible rate is an option, but these new units have to guarantee you a victory. If you still lose fist next battle, then you're most likely only providing your opponent with mass (the battle with your opponent is more likely to happen near his base or his ACU when you have the advantage in numbers) and as soon as your initial mass field is empty, then your factories won't be able to produce anymore.

What happens most of the time, is that the reclaimed mass is used to upgrade mass extractors. Then you're quickly turning your finite field into an increased constant rate of mass income. When this is done, you can build the additional factories. This does mean that your big army of units will come later, but if you can keep up for so long, then it'll really pay off.

The most that the travel for mass is going to cost you is the build time of the engineer that you're sending ahead. Given the fact that the reclaim can usually feed more than one T1 factory and a mex upgrade, this cost is negligible.

Also: if you send your ACU ahead for a mass field somewhere in the middle, then you can continue reclaiming even if a raiding party or an enemy ACU appears. This will not happen with an engineer (Then the time aspect is going to be really costly).

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 27 Feb 2014, 09:42

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T08:18:32+02:00

E8400-CV wrote:
Then you should also keep in mind opportunity costs. The time you spend walking to the reclaim could be spend building Pgens and mexes, offsetting some of the "lost" reclaim.

you also have to realize 99% of the time you're going to have an idle engie or you're going to be stalling at some point, so getting that reclaim is never a waste of time. Honestly transporting engies to your opponents base and reclaiming their engies would be cost effective.

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 27 Feb 2014, 08:18

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T07:42:45+02:00

Then you should also keep in mind opportunity costs. The time you spend walking to the reclaim could be spend building Pgens and mexes, offsetting some of the "lost" reclaim.

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 27 Feb 2014, 07:42

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T06:05:53+02:00

Also keep in mind the concept of mass inflation.

The reclaim is worth more if you get it sooner.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 27 Feb 2014, 06:05

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T04:44:57+02:00

gogbe wrote:
Why is reclaim so important? I don't under stand why everyone goes for the reclaim at the middle of the map every game.

Reclaim is mass you can use immediately as compared to the mass you get from mass extractors. Take for example Setons Clutch. There's a ton of mass in the middle, who knows how much, possibly 10,000 mass (I'm sure someone knows a more exact number but I think that's a good rough estimate). Certainly you will get more than that from your mex's through the course of the game but that's over the entire game and not right this minute. That's why reclaim is important, your getting a bunch of mass in one big lump sum instead of a steady income, not to mention the more mass you have the more you can make, so the more mass you can get your hands on the better. Also mass that you overflow gets distributed to your team mates in team games.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 27 Feb 2014, 04:44

Re: Reclaim

2014-02-27T03:28:36+02:00

Because it's free resources. Early on you can invest that into things that pay off really fast (T1 mex >> T2 mex). If you don't go, the other team will get it all.

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 27 Feb 2014, 03:28

Reclaim

2014-02-27T03:23:15+02:00

Why is reclaim so important? I don't under stand why everyone goes for the reclaim at the middle of the map every game.

Statistics: Posted by gogbe — 27 Feb 2014, 03:23