Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-13T02:37:26+02:00

This is a fantastic find. Great job.

Statistics: Posted by Tex — 13 Apr 2014, 02:37

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-12T00:44:34+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Try setting Battleship Torpedoes as the main weapon in the unit's script.

Two points on this:
-The primary weapon is the first one listed
-The primary weapon is the one the unit's movement behavior is based off of. If the short-ranged torpedo weapon is the primary for the battleship, it will attempt to get within torpedo range when told to attack enemy ships, which is undesirable behavior.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 12 Apr 2014, 00:44

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-11T20:32:41+02:00

I still don't see it with the uef cruiser. The gauss cannon always take's a little while to retarget, regardless of whether missiles are firing. Given the firing times for all the weapons on this unit, it seems they could quickly fall in line and never conflict with each other, thus masking the problem. Also it appears that if you turn a unit with this problem to 'hold fire', give it a target, and then turn it back to 'return fire', the weapons will fire simultaneously on the first volley. On some units, like salem, this will actually align the fire rates and solve the problem, at least until it has to pick another target. On others, like galaxy, the delay immediately returns on subsequent volleys.

It seems that units with differing fire rates that are bound to conflict (like 4 second proton cannon and 10 second torpedo on galaxy) and/or long salvo times are what suffer the most.

Statistics: Posted by JeeVeS — 11 Apr 2014, 20:32

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-11T05:09:06+02:00

On le netbook, yes

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 11 Apr 2014, 05:09

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-11T05:07:21+02:00

JeeVeS wrote:
It appears Governor is not affected; all three weapons can fire simultaneously.

I just tested, and I do see the issue appearing. It's barely noticeable since the main cannon fires slowly and the muzzle delay is so low, but it's there all right.

If you want I can make a replay, but the exact timings are hard to catch.

One thing that gives it away is that the main turret won't retarget until roughly the muzzle salvo delay has passed, when firing a volley of missiles.

IceDreamer wrote:
Then the hypothesis is not correct. Clearly, long MuzzleSalvoDelay does not always interrupt the firing of the other weapons...

Try setting Battleship Torpedoes as the main weapon in the unit's script.

Don't be so quick on the trigger, and please, if you want something done -- why don't you do it yourself? Are you still unable to reproduce the issue, even in my replay and on your own?

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 11 Apr 2014, 05:07

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-11T04:43:26+02:00

Then the hypothesis is not correct. Clearly, long MuzzleSalvoDelay does not always interrupt the firing of the other weapons...

Try setting Battleship Torpedoes as the main weapon in the unit's script.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 11 Apr 2014, 04:43

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-11T03:45:43+02:00

It appears Governor is not affected; all three weapons can fire simultaneously.

Statistics: Posted by JeeVeS — 11 Apr 2014, 03:45

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-11T02:33:28+02:00

Have you confirmed this issue affects the UEF Cruiser too? It should be the very most obvious, and most devastating.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 11 Apr 2014, 02:33

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-10T23:22:21+02:00

VoiceofReason wrote:
Just because fixing a bug may create a new set of balance issues to be fixed in NO WAY should be the deciding factor to NOT fix an apparent BUG.

Problem is that the bug itself cannot be immediately fixed, since I strongly suspect the code that actually deals with weapon attacks to be within the engine. (If somebody can prove me wrong that's good, but I have so far been unable to find it, and the Unit and Weapon classes are based directly on C-implemented-classes from the moho-global in lua).

We can mitigate the issue by for instance not using the SalvoDelay, but that does not equate to fixing the actual bug--just working around it.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 10 Apr 2014, 23:22

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-10T22:25:16+02:00

Just because fixing a bug may create a new set of balance issues to be fixed in NO WAY should be the deciding factor to NOT fix an apparent BUG.

Statistics: Posted by VoiceofReason — 10 Apr 2014, 22:25

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-10T19:16:59+02:00

Good work sheeo.

Perhaps looking at a unit that has no problem firing simultaneously like the loyalist would help reveal which settings are affecting this.

I noticed with the sera destroyer that the delay is on the torpedoes instead of the lasers. It settles into a fire cycle that has a slight pause after every 6 torpedoes, with no apparent delay to the lasers. This doesn't happen (of course) when firing torpedoes only.

I disagree that this problem should only be fixed for select units. It should be fixed entirely and then balance adjusted if it really creates a problem. Currently salem gets slaughtered when in torpedo range by exodus despite having some of the best torpedoes/torpedo defense.

Edit: Concerning frigates: both cybran and uef seem to fire both weapons normally at the same time, while sera's aa gun is clearly interrupted by the main cannon. This is one of the most obvious examples of the problem.

Statistics: Posted by JeeVeS — 10 Apr 2014, 19:16

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-10T19:11:33+02:00

Lame wrote:
fixing it for Battleships shoudnt cause any problems
however fixing it for salem is a balance change

Yes. This problem probably occurs for all Destroyers. Situation between Destroyers is mostly fine, since all of them have this issue, but the Cybran Battleship is really screwed. The Neptune too, but since it's a great unit already, I'm not sure it needs to be fixed.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 10 Apr 2014, 19:11

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-10T18:40:00+02:00

fixing it for Battleships shoudnt cause any problems
however fixing it for salem is a balance change

Statistics: Posted by Lame — 10 Apr 2014, 18:40

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-10T14:54:19+02:00

Ah, yes you're right. It seems that the torpedo muzzle salvo delay is also applied to the primary weapon once the first torpedo is shot.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 10 Apr 2014, 14:54

Re: Cybran Battleship Suffers reduced DPS when using torpedo

2014-04-10T14:36:48+02:00

I tested with the salem again.

First test:
Firing at a civ frigate outside torp range, 11-12 projectiles

Second test:
Frigate within torp range, 6 projectiles fired and the rate seems intermittent

Third test
Frigate outside range initially, then another spawned in range. This affects firerate toward first frigate as well.
- I didn't spawn the second frigate quite fast, but I still see the delay it gives.

Replay attached.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 10 Apr 2014, 14:36