Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T15:59:01+02:00

He's right though. Land units are incredibly powerful in general, but slow to get to places. The ability to build shields, flack, hovertanks, let alone engies right where they need to be at such a pace isn't a small change, it's a big one. Think about the battle VS Summit for example, it would totally change the dynamic. Learn the timing and you could spit out shields at the proper moment to totally nullify incoming fire!

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 26 Oct 2014, 15:59

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T15:52:05+02:00

If only all of us had this magical ability to see into the future :p

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 26 Oct 2014, 15:52

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T15:34:39+02:00

SC-Account wrote:
galacticfear wrote:
SC-Account wrote:Tempest building hover.. why not. There are much much more useful things to build if you build stuff with a tempest at all. If anything this will make up for some funny strategies or not change anything at all. T3 engies are so much more useful than anything the Tempest can build or would be able to build.. mb some hover shields for the engies though.

No its just dumb, if you want hover on the battlefield fast use what is already in the game- transports. And whoever said about it being hard to protect tempest with mobile shields I am fairly sure if you just set them to protect they make an epic shield wall around the tempest, correct me if I am wrong?

You are just locked into your conservative mindset and afraid of everything new and unknown!

Not afraid, just against change for the sake of change, especially with no positive game play coming from it.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 26 Oct 2014, 15:34

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T15:29:19+02:00

galacticfear wrote:
SC-Account wrote:Tempest building hover.. why not. There are much much more useful things to build if you build stuff with a tempest at all. If anything this will make up for some funny strategies or not change anything at all. T3 engies are so much more useful than anything the Tempest can build or would be able to build.. mb some hover shields for the engies though.

No its just dumb, if you want hover on the battlefield fast use what is already in the game- transports. And whoever said about it being hard to protect tempest with mobile shields I am fairly sure if you just set them to protect they make an epic shield wall around the tempest, correct me if I am wrong?

You are just locked into your conservative mindset and afraid of everything new and unknown!

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 26 Oct 2014, 15:29

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T14:27:44+02:00

Random 2-cents here, I have don't know if it would shift balance or not, I tend to side on the idea that it might be though given the power of shields and the ability to build various land hover units immediately next to your opponent's base from the water; however, regardless of its balance, does it really add anything we need? If it doesn't shift balance its a pointless addition, we should not make random additions to the game just because we can do so without upsetting balance, if it does shift balance in a noticeable way then we have to ask if the Tempest needs a balance change and if this is the best way to go about it.

Personally I have no idea if the Tempest needs a balance change or not, I don't play Aeon and haven't seen an Aeon player make any serious use of them (nor would my rating bring me anywhere near the point where I should be making that call ), but I truly doubt that this would be the best thing to change if it did need a balance change given that it could be accomplished better by buffing other things that are much easier to quantify and test the impact of. If we were talking about a serious unit design change in giving the Tempest a greater production focus (which, given the cost and build power of factories, it definitely does not and won't have this focus without major balance shifts) and thus giving it a more potent secondary role this might be worth discussing but that would be a major shift in design and balance that would I doubt anything in the current balance calls for that.

Statistics: Posted by Rogueleader89 — 26 Oct 2014, 14:27

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T11:51:31+02:00

SC-Account wrote:
Tempest building hover.. why not. There are much much more useful things to build if you build stuff with a tempest at all. If anything this will make up for some funny strategies or not change anything at all. T3 engies are so much more useful than anything the Tempest can build or would be able to build.. mb some hover shields for the engies though.

No its just dumb, if you want hover on the battlefield fast use what is already in the game- transports. And whoever said about it being hard to protect tempest with mobile shields I am fairly sure if you just set them to protect they make an epic shield wall around the tempest, correct me if I am wrong?

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 26 Oct 2014, 11:51

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T05:00:56+02:00

Tempest building hover.. why not. There are much much more useful things to build if you build stuff with a tempest at all. If anything this will make up for some funny strategies or not change anything at all. T3 engies are so much more useful than anything the Tempest can build or would be able to build.. mb some hover shields for the engies though.

Statistics: Posted by SC-Account — 26 Oct 2014, 05:00

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-26T04:27:48+02:00

Sounds more like conspiracy to me

To the point: I like the comparison with T2 land facs building. I rarely build anything out a Tempest for the simple reason that it's firing and moving get's all messed up. But I still oppose this "change". It's already bad enough it can build engies to get all the reclaim first.

Ze_PilOt wrote:
It is discussed because someone discovered it almost by accident.
Changes that may or may not happens are really obfuscated now.

A lot of people told me I lack communication, but at least I've announced each patch period, with a presentation of the beta patch mod, and a link to the forum to discuss the change. And forced the team in charge to write a proper changelog in that forum too.

I'm not saying the obfuscation is intended, but it's there. The fact that it's happening on a different repository not linked to the FAF one is confusing too.

You should've ignored "A lot of people"

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 26 Oct 2014, 04:27

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-24T21:47:30+02:00

it was going to be proposed at a later date. how much clearer can i be?

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 24 Oct 2014, 21:47

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-24T21:28:03+02:00

It is discussed because someone discovered it almost by accident.
Changes that may or may not happens are really obfuscated now.

A lot of people told me I lack communication, but at least I've announced each patch period, with a presentation of the beta patch mod, and a link to the forum to discuss the change. And forced the team in charge to write a proper changelog in that forum too.

I'm not saying the obfuscation is intended, but it's there. The fact that it's happening on a different repository not linked to the FAF one is confusing too.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 24 Oct 2014, 21:28

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-24T21:04:44+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
The change was rejected by "the old management" because the next patch was meant to be bugfix and minor changes only.

There is no new management decision yet, but still, a group of unelected people are decided to force a change that was previously denied. As far as I know, until a real new management is in place, the old one is still prevailing on such decisions.

As the denial of these changes is the main reason why I've stopped developing FAF due to these people pressure, I find the inclusion quite toxic to make until a real comity, with a long term plan and vision is in place.

If the motto is "if someone coded it, he probably has good reasons and it should be test", bad things will happen very fast. It's not like changing a few numbers in the code base is hard to do.

chill. it was on github in some repository. not even proposed to the public as a change. sneak preview.
it was said so many times that the changes are open to discussion, yet you still make it look as if someone plays foul here.
if somebody makes an implementation that is to be discussed its no different then making a post that is to be discussed.

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 24 Oct 2014, 21:04

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-24T21:00:50+02:00

Thanks. Now that the server is transferred and almost everything is working correctly, I guess a comity will be in place quite rapidly.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 24 Oct 2014, 21:00

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-24T20:41:25+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
There is no new management decision yet, but still, a group of unelected people are decided to force a change that was previously denied. As far as I know, until a real new management is in place, the old one is still prevailing on such decisions.

As the denial of these changes is the main reason why I've stopped developing FAF due to these people pressure, I find the inclusion quite toxic to make until a real comity, with a long term plan and vision is in place.

If the motto is "if someone coded it, he probably has good reasons and it should be test", bad things will happen very fast. It's not like changing a few numbers in the code base is hard to do.

Nobody's forcing anything. We're reverting the changes (https://github.com/FAForever/fa/commit/f0030f655372a9d13d678fe681371c2c0c83ed34) until a consensus on this is reached.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 24 Oct 2014, 20:41

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-24T20:08:46+02:00

The change was rejected by "the old management" because the next patch was meant to be bugfix and minor changes only.

There is no new management decision yet, but still, a group of unelected people are decided to force a change that was previously denied. As far as I know, until a real new management is in place, the old one is still prevailing on such decisions.

As the denial of these changes is the main reason why I've stopped developing FAF due to these people pressure, I find the inclusion quite toxic to make until a real comity, with a long term plan and vision is in place.

If the motto is "if someone coded it, he probably has good reasons and it should be test", bad things will happen very fast. It's not like changing a few numbers in the code base is hard to do.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 24 Oct 2014, 20:08

Re: Why is Tempest being able to build hover units not imba?

2014-10-24T20:07:37+02:00

I don't really see the difference between this and letting a land factory build a salem. The tempest is a naval factory, it should build naval units. The fact that hover units can also go on water doesn't mean they should be able to be built from a naval factory. Its more like a features for features sake than for a reason.

Statistics: Posted by Deering — 24 Oct 2014, 20:07