Forged Alliance Forever

Re: spread attack

2015-08-19T12:38:09+02:00

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/843

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 19 Aug 2015, 12:38

Re: spread attack

2015-08-19T11:50:14+02:00

so how is that going? Also, how about giving queue differently? So if spread attack hot key is pressed, attack orders will be given to just 1 unit in selected group. 2 clicks - 2 units on that target.

Statistics: Posted by justmakenewgame — 19 Aug 2015, 11:50

Re: spread attack

2015-08-04T05:02:03+02:00

CodingSquirrel wrote:
I'm going to assume you don't always queue up a split attack on a uniform group of units against a uniform group of units?

dont assume that. You'll want particular type to die first. And if you are attacking them with just everything - it's a mess made by player. You are not fixing player's mess, only mess of current spread attack.

Get you goal clear pls before you do anything. The problem is that player cant fix the randomness of spread attack. It's not even randomness itself.
And i think it will be too easy if you remove randomness at all like Keyser suggests. Every order/function should work better if player adds a little micro. So i say - add a little random and remove queu.
Before spread:
1: 1,2,3,4,5
2: 1,2,3,4,5
After:
1: 1
2: 2

Easy to code, easy for player to control, has opportunity to micro futher.

CodingSquirrel wrote:
1: 1,2,3,4,5
2: 2,3,4,5,1
3: 3,4,5,1,2
4: 4,5,1,2,3
5: 5,1,2,3,4

this exactrly what creates a mess of like 50 red lines. Cant controll anything after i spread attack.

Statistics: Posted by justmakenewgame — 04 Aug 2015, 05:02

Re: spread attack

2015-08-03T21:47:34+02:00

I think people mostly just care about the first target being evenly spread. I like your idea of having the first be evenly distributed and then after that be random. That way, things like the solace vs cruisers will be easier to micro

Statistics: Posted by quark036 — 03 Aug 2015, 21:47

Re: spread attack

2015-08-03T21:08:23+02:00

SetonsGrandPa wrote:
who will spread attack between t1 and t3 ?? you focus t3 only. And its for 1 pass. So all you have to do is:

It was an example of units who take different amounts of time to kill. I'm going to assume you don't always queue up a split attack on a uniform group of units against a uniform group of units?

SilverKronos wrote:
CodingSquirrel wrote: if you have something like 5 t1 queued up first and then 5 t3 queued after, once the t1 is dead the first 6 units are killing the first t3, while the last 4 are killing the other 4 t3. I'm having a hard time coming up with a suitable algorithm that solves that and other similar issues.

Perhaps a hybrid, where the first attack is stable but the rest are random?

i didn't get that part sorry ^^
It would be simplier to distribute "equitably" the targets to all attackers. if there is 60 target and 60 attackers thant every single one should have a differrent target. if not, shift+G is useless

I'll be a little more clear. Say you have 5 units and send them against 5 other units, and use split attack. The way I had it set up their attack order would look like this:
1: 1,2,3,4,5
2: 2,3,4,5,1
3: 3,4,5,1,2
4: 4,5,1,2,3
5: 5,1,2,3,4

So let's say the enemy units 1 and 2 die before the others. Now you'd have your units 1,2, and 3 attacking the enemy unit 3, and unit 4 still killing 4, and unit 5 still killing 5. That's not very uniform.

Statistics: Posted by CodingSquirrel — 03 Aug 2015, 21:08

Re: spread attack

2015-08-03T20:43:09+02:00

codingsquirel i didn't get your exemple...
setonsgrandpa, i don't understand the 10% random, and the need to fixing the targeting..

just make it so that : 6 vs 6 : there is no double on some unit
18vs6 : there is 3 for 1 unit.

if you have 2 differents type of unit to target, well, you can make 2 groups of unit that will attack. ie : 50 T1 bomber vs 20 T1 and 10 T2 => take 1 group of 40 bombers and spread attack on T2 units; group of 10 bombers spread attack on T1 units.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 03 Aug 2015, 20:43

Re: spread attack

2015-08-03T20:36:11+02:00

CodingSquirrel wrote:
if you have something like 5 t1 queued up first and then 5 t3 queued after, once the t1 is dead the first 6 units are killing the first t3, while the last 4 are killing the other 4 t3. I'm having a hard time coming up with a suitable algorithm that solves that and other similar issues.

Perhaps a hybrid, where the first attack is stable but the rest are random?

i didn't get that part sorry ^^
It would be simplier to distribute "equitably" the targets to all attackers. if there is 60 target and 60 attackers thant every single one should have a differrent target. if not, shift+G is useless

Statistics: Posted by SilverKronos — 03 Aug 2015, 20:36

Re: spread attack

2015-08-03T20:30:10+02:00

who will spread attack between t1 and t3 ?? you focus t3 only. And its for 1 pass. So all you have to do is:
bombers [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] (selection)
targets [1, 2, 3] (queue from any selected unit)
b1 -> t1; b2 -> t2; b3 -> t3; b4 -> t1; b5 -> t2. How they pick target after they destroy first - does not matter. Random or just next or last.

But this may be too effective and too easy. So mb you can assign only 1 target to each, they will not have second target in queue. And also add a 10% chance of random. So you will have:
b1 -> t1; b2(radom!) -> t3; b3 -> t3; b4 -> t1; b5(random) -> t1. And since you have removed the queue and give them only 1 target, untargeted t2 will be visible to player just as double targeted t3. And player can fix it.
This way spread attack wont be just dumb press and forget.

Removing all but 1 target is necesary so player can see what bombers or targets you need to fix. Its impossible now cuz too many red lines.

So player will do:
1. shift attack all target
2. spread
3. fix
if needed
4. shitf attack and spread for 2nd pass

Statistics: Posted by justmakenewgame — 03 Aug 2015, 20:30

Re: spread attack

2015-08-03T18:05:31+02:00

So I was playing around with this a bit and while having a stable split attack is nice, random still probably gives the best results. The naive approach I tried (first unit kills 1,2,3, and 4, second unit kills 2,3,4, and 1, etc.), if you have something like 5 t1 queued up first and then 5 t3 queued after, once the t1 is dead the first 6 units are killing the first t3, while the last 4 are killing the other 4 t3. I'm having a hard time coming up with a suitable algorithm that solves that and other similar issues.

Perhaps a hybrid, where the first attack is stable but the rest are random?

Statistics: Posted by CodingSquirrel — 03 Aug 2015, 18:05

Re: spread attack

2015-08-03T14:06:35+02:00

here is an exemple with mml and T2 pd.

20 mml spread attack on 20 T2 pd.
End up with 6 non targeted first time
9 non target the 2nd time
8 non targeted the 3rd time.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 03 Aug 2015, 14:06

Re: spread attack

2015-08-02T20:58:28+02:00

yes 5v5 is easy. That's why we got this mod integrated, so that it's easier to do that with higher number of unit. But we don't want a f*** up one that can send 3 strat against 1 cruiser or other shit like that (doing lot of overkill).

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 02 Aug 2015, 20:58

Re: spread attack

2015-08-02T19:25:21+02:00

5 v5 is easy to click manually. But 20 vs whatever is harder or 80 vs like 3. Or add an indicator that shows how many will attack each target.

Statistics: Posted by justmakenewgame — 02 Aug 2015, 19:25

Re: spread attack

2015-08-02T18:22:29+02:00

here is a replay to highlight this "issue"

replay : 3714005-SilverKronos.fafreplay
replay's id : 3714005

Statistics: Posted by SilverKronos — 02 Aug 2015, 18:22

spread attack

2015-08-02T18:19:04+02:00

is there a fix possible to make it not random at all ?

atm it works this way : for exemple 5 strat vs 5 cruiser. you split attack strat on cruiser, there is a % of chance for each of strat to attack a cruiser. (or something like that...) you can end up with 2 strat targeting the same cruiser.
in the end that's not what you wanted your strat to achieve...

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 02 Aug 2015, 18:19