Forged Alliance Forever

Re: T2

2013-04-01T12:39:56+02:00

you need 3 bomber to effectively snipe ~3 pgens or like 4-5 to snipe a hydro, these bombers will mostlikely all die, that means you wasted up to 10k energy for the chance that you opponent loses max 100 energy income? not very effective

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 01 Apr 2013, 12:39

Re: T2

2013-04-01T12:09:28+02:00

Golol wrote:
and even if the enemy has -100 power he will need about 1min to rebuild thw hydro so not really worth it

I have to disagree with this, at least partly. There does come a point where you have enough power that losing the hydro doesn't matter, but on some maps that moment can come quite late (TAG Craftious Maximus comes immediately to mind as a power-stalling map, but this applies to many others to a greater or lesser extent).

In any game where losing the hydro will affect the energy income (i.e. when the player is floating less than 100 energy), taking out the hydro is a very powerful tactic. You are forcing an action from your opponent, and hence putting him on the defensive to an extent - if he doesn't stop what he's doing immediately and attend to the hydro, he will lose sufficient build power that you can probably steamroll him soon enough. If he does stop and attend to the hydro, then you've gained a big advantage in terms of concentration on his part. He may also have to stop some or all of his production to get the hydro finished ASAP, plus if there is travel time involved his only option may be to make pgens instead, thus delaying him further.

Statistics: Posted by Eukanuba — 01 Apr 2013, 12:09

Re: T2

2013-04-01T10:36:36+02:00

and even if the enemy has -100 power he will need about 1min to rebuild thw hydro so not really worth it

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 01 Apr 2013, 10:36

Re: T2

2013-03-30T01:48:50+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
problem is that people normally build way too much power so sniping power is hardly usefull, especially on lower rated games

Ah good point. Well it was worth a thought. Thanks all!

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 30 Mar 2013, 01:48

Re: T2

2013-03-20T20:57:37+02:00

problem is that people normally build way too much power so sniping power is hardly usefull, especially on lower rated games

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 20 Mar 2013, 20:57

Re: T2

2013-03-20T20:54:49+02:00

ColonelSheppard wrote:
t2 air is often use to snipe commanders (gunships, bombers, gettho gunships, mercies...) but also for big drops or general map awareness, it's hardcountered by mobile t2 flak, so it's quite dangerous to use and not as common as t2 land, but it is very viable

t3 air is not common because most maps simply end before you could get t3 power or ras upgrade on your commader so you would have the energy to do it, but on the bigger maps like open palms/sera glaciers/roanoke it's quite often seen

What about for sniping power? Maybe this would only be viable on my nooby level games, but I was thinking if I could hold off my opponent in the t1 land war, then sneak out 2 fighter bombers, they could take out the opponents hydro power in 1 pass and then cause as much havoc as they can before they go down.

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 20 Mar 2013, 20:54

Re: T2

2013-03-20T20:49:57+02:00

t2 air is often use to snipe commanders (gunships, bombers, gettho gunships, mercies...) but also for big drops or general map awareness, it's hardcountered by mobile t2 flak, so it's quite dangerous to use and not as common as t2 land, but it is very viable

t3 air is not common because most maps simply end before you could get t3 power or ras upgrade on your commader so you would have the energy to do it, but on the bigger maps like open palms/sera glaciers/roanoke it's quite often seen

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 20 Mar 2013, 20:49

Re: T2

2013-03-20T19:55:26+02:00

Golol wrote:
well but with the obsidian you cownt to much against t1.
sure, shield is cool against small damage, but it does so mucch overkill.
lets take dps. by dps, a aurora would kill a striker in 3 seconds (3*120 > 300)
but it does 480 dmg every 4 seconds so it only kills a striker every 4 seconds.
so its not very useful against t1.
and i said. the blaze is also not great against t1. i understand you having trouble with it. but its the only t2 unit aeon has against t1

Thanks! Yeah I understood what you were saying about the overkill etc. I was just saying that with aeon by far the best teching strategy seemed to me to go straight for t3, because the blaze just seemed craptastic to me...

Thanks Sheppard!

I had another question about t2 while you guys are being so helpful. As I understand it, when it comes to air, the conventional wisdom is to spam t1 interceptors and use t1 bombers. I haven't yet seen a 1v1 game where anyone has used t2 or t3 air. Is that never done in 1v1? To the extent that air is teched up, I was under the impression that people do not use t2 fighter/bombers. I was wondering why this isn't done. On paper, they seem pretty good to me. HP/mass they compare well with interceptors, although my guess is equal mass interceptors would win in a fight. But, then these guys also drop bombs which are way more powerful than t1 bombers, and they have much better survivability, which I would guess is nice with the air staging facility. Since they are mass for mass about as good as both interceptors and bombers, why are they not a really good unit? More generally, how does the teching go for air, both in general and specifically in 1v1 games?

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 20 Mar 2013, 19:55

Re: T2

2013-03-20T19:19:23+02:00

well but with the obsidian you cownt to much against t1.
sure, shield is cool against small damage, but it does so mucch overkill.
lets take dps. by dps, a aurora would kill a striker in 3 seconds (3*120 > 300)
but it does 480 dmg every 4 seconds so it only kills a striker every 4 seconds.
so its not very useful against t1.
and i said. the blaze is also not great against t1. i understand you having trouble with it. but its the only t2 unit aeon has against t1

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 20 Mar 2013, 19:19

Re: T2

2013-03-20T09:28:02+02:00

the rangebot stands for the UEF "Mongoose" and the Cybran "Hoplite"
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 04,DRL0204

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 20 Mar 2013, 09:28

Re: T2

2013-03-20T02:03:22+02:00

Thanks guys for your responses! I really appreciate it. A couple follow up questions:

Shep, what is the "range bot?"

Golol, I've had only bad experiences with the blaze. Is that the general consensus?

Eukanaba, you don't get a follow up, but your response was good too!

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 20 Mar 2013, 02:03

Re: T2

2013-03-19T12:31:03+02:00

actually the toughest t2 unit is the obsidian.
it has overall 250 more hp than a sera t2 bot and has the advantage of gaining 1750 hp back (shield).
becuase of the dps its just a t2 slayer and even useful against t3 but becuas of a huge ovekrill its barely useful against t1.
for aeon t2 i would build blazes against t1 although aeon does not have much counter t1 options in t2. the blazes are... barely acceptable. i think its better going for more auroras

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 19 Mar 2013, 12:31

Re: T2

2013-03-19T08:55:15+02:00

1. auroras have to kite in order to be usefull
2. atrys are mostly for destroying PDs, the cybran one is difficult to dodge (cause it cant aim) and the aeon one has awesome dps
3. yeah thats a cool thing, look my sinature to learn more about the seleen and how to use/counter it
4. rangebot: kiteing everything T1/2
5. t2 tanks: own t1 tanks in bigger groups, good on big maps, not good against ACU (same for sera bot basicly)
every T2 unit is built in competetive play
6. MMLs are only usefull to outrange t2 PD, if somebody turtels, mml will break the turtel at some point, undepending of the number of TMD (there really is the point of critical mass at some point)

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 19 Mar 2013, 08:55

Re: T2

2013-03-19T02:37:46+02:00

That's a very big question you just asked.

T2 land is arguably where the most diversity in the game is found. MMLs are usually only used to outrange T2 PD (they are the only mobile T2 unit that can do this), but are useful as a general artillery unit too. Cybran have the best MML as their missiles can withstand a hit from TMD (they split into three weaker missiles).

UEF and Cybran T2 bots are long range but relatively weak, protect them with shields (UEF) or stealth (Cybran), and use their range to your advantage by kiting the enemy.

UEF and Cybran amphibious tanks are useful on any map, water or not. The UEF Riptide is especially useful for repelling T1 spam, huge HP and very high rate of fire. Cybran Wagner is front-loaded and hard hitting, but has lower HP. It's quick though so you can dance around enemy units with it.

Sera T2 bots are short range and slow, but they are tougher than anything else in T2 so if they get in range they are massively powerful. If there are Sera T2 bots coming towards you, then you might want to think about upgrading to T3 land to avoid getting ripped to pieces.

Flak is pretty much the same across all factions and is excellent against all T1 & T2 air, and gunships of all tech levels. It is also good against massed T3 air (ASFs or strat bombers) due to its splash damage.

There's plenty more, but that should give you a bit to go on.

Statistics: Posted by Eukanuba — 19 Mar 2013, 02:37

T2

2013-03-19T00:40:48+02:00

Hey guys,

As a new player here, it's been easy to pick up on the basics of what separates the t1 units of the different factions. For example, understanding that:

Tanks: aurora's have twice the range but half the health, mantises are more mobile, other two are average.
Arty: sera and UEF have wide damage radius and are arguably the most useful (?)
Scouts: Sera's turns invisible.

Do you guys have any tips on t2 units? What are the most distinctive features about the various t2 units? Which are the most commonly built in competitive play? Do people generally try to use any MML quickly before tmd goes up?

Statistics: Posted by sasin — 19 Mar 2013, 00:40