Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-13T18:26:59+02:00

I made a thread about this a long time ago:
/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=8767

I consider this very interesting! People never really discussed the matter in question in the thread.

Statistics: Posted by Ubilaz — 13 Mar 2016, 18:26

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-12T04:56:51+02:00

They don't need a naval exp, their navy is already quite strong. I was laughing that Ithilis responded to the post as if it was serious...

Statistics: Posted by briang — 12 Mar 2016, 04:56

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-12T04:55:56+02:00

briang wrote:
Ithilis_Quo wrote:
Swol wrote:My ideas are pretty radical but i really think they will solve the current shitness of the sera

No they will not, i was think the same then test it and test it multiple times and its not working. You can also try it, this mod with your sugestion about buff sera is in vault, its called faf. Try it on 1600+ level and would clarly see that it is not enought.

I just woke up and rolled out of my bed laughing when I read this.

For once, I agree with you. Sera already have a floating T3 shield, a T2 hover tanks and T1 arty. Their navy is good enough. If Yathsou is made a little bit weaker in terms of DPS or health, that'd make room for a naval experimental. Like some "submersible battlecruiser", combining UEF and Seraphim laser beams and submersible like Atlantis and Tempest. No torpedoes though, because there is Yathsou, the submarine hunter.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 12 Mar 2016, 04:55

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T17:59:57+02:00

losing one in the middle of your army sucks because you have to break formation (or get fucked by the lightning thingy), making it hard to attack with multiple of them or an assistance army together
they get nice love from behind from GCs, the magnet claws of GCs are unreliable but probably make up for having less dps than ythota, also GC has more hp and profits better from vets
not to mention that their lightning balls can be dodged and 8-10 percies should be able to take one of the bots down

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 11 Mar 2016, 17:59

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T17:42:45+02:00

Blodir wrote:
Funny, but also true. Snipers/shields are ok, but not strong enough to make up for Othuums and Ythothas

Why is there so much hate for the yhtotha? besides the megalith it is the only exp able to kill large groups of t3.

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 11 Mar 2016, 17:42

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T17:26:20+02:00

depend what you are fighting against, i find sniper to be really good counter to some experimental rush (ML). It will be even more obvious when exp will have lower BT.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 11 Mar 2016, 17:26

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T16:35:26+02:00

Funny, but also true. Snipers/shields are ok, but not strong enough to make up for Othuums and Ythothas

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 11 Mar 2016, 16:35

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T16:25:15+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
Swol wrote:My ideas are pretty radical but i really think they will solve the current shitness of the sera

No they will not, i was think the same then test it and test it multiple times and its not working. You can also try it, this mod with your sugestion about buff sera is in vault, its called faf. Try it on 1600+ level and would clarly see that it is not enought.

I just woke up and rolled out of my bed laughing when I read this.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 11 Mar 2016, 16:25

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T12:02:23+02:00

solid b8, seems you caught some fish

Statistics: Posted by biass — 11 Mar 2016, 12:02

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T11:53:44+02:00

Swol wrote:
My ideas are pretty radical but i really think they will solve the current shitness of the sera

No they will not, i was think the same then test it and test it multiple times and its not working. You can also try it, this mod with your sugestion about buff sera is in vault, its called faf. Try it on 1600+ level and would clarly see that it is not enought.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 11 Mar 2016, 11:53

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T05:49:58+02:00

Seraphim are clearly really shit because of its T3. I've got a couple of really good ideas.

If we don't want to add new units to the game we could just give them Brick, Percie or Harbs. I don't think people would like this though so i think the next option is better.

We could give sera some mobile shield at T3 to increase survivability of their units. Mixed with flak this would be really solid against air threats. We could also give them mobile T3 arty like the other factions or maybe even a long range sniper tank thing so Percies and Bricks are forced to come into Othuum range to gain ground against them. I think people tend to like multi purpose cornfed units though so maybe this solution isn't ideal.

For the naval stuff. We could make the T3 shields floating. Making the flak, hover tank and t1 arty floating as well will give sera more naval options as well. A battleship that can build nukes so you don't need to build a separate submarine for it would be pretty cool too maybe.

To maintain faction diversity, but give sera a much needed naval exp, we could also give them a flying naval exp. My idea is that it can kill everything except battleships with one bomb in a 400km radius, and will be as fast as an ASF so you can get in a out before the opponent can do anything about it. Give sera cruisers a big area of effect damage so that if enemy ASF decide to try and follow you can shred the swarm. Floating flak will help with this too.

My ideas are pretty radical but i really think they will solve the current shitness of the sera.

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 11 Mar 2016, 05:49

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-11T04:29:57+02:00

Seraphim are beautiful and amazing

Statistics: Posted by theeggroll — 11 Mar 2016, 04:29

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-03-03T00:41:04+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
Ithilis i was answering on his suggested examples.

This is not true, Obsidian beat ilshavoh, obsidian suck, becasue have bad target priority(sufer against oc) and energy cost, but its stronger tank as ilshavoh.
Also have mobile shield while seraphin have nothing special on T2

Obsidian is like a t2 Othuum: strong and efficient, but lacks range and speed and requires mobile shields with it. Ilshavoh is just better unit.

Also not true, while you have ravanger you have also shield ower it, and it take very long time to destroy... he have also "single" artilery with ravenger and then you are in big problem. Ravanger is not only defense most of map are small map, while you can use ravenger with superior range.

You also never have a sningle unprotected arty killing pds. You have a bunch of them shielded and protected.

you basicly say what he say, and everyone think (know) that seraphin on lategame suck. Win over T3 or lose, what is mark of bad balance. T2 bot isnt super power, its better as pillar, but pillar spam is also aweasome. UEF T2 navy isnt bad, thats urban legend, uef only need mix units.

Of course you will, while you have superior range and can kite, half of oultum even dont go on range, sera can have shield, but uef have also shield, and probably better. And sera have sniper but you can have also titans, or what titans you can have fateboy... when you compare only perci vs only outhum its hard lose while uef kite. When you compare mixed army, then its dificult to compare while it have big complexity, but i mean that its quite obvious that in equal skill level seraphim on late game are basicly w8 for lose.

_______________
And if it is problem? Of course that its. Some faction should be better on start worse on late, but it need some other reward as more tactips, more skill base units and etc. Seraphim have far less units = less potencial strategy, and units that have are in general not stronger as other, better say are weaker (outhum, Yotha, T2 gunship, cruiser)

And still this is how this game works atm. Yes, it has balance issues and in current example it get solved by tweaks, which is what done in your mod. But it doesn't get solved by adding new unit to where it doesn't solve any problem especially since FAF community doesn't accept new units.
If Lichking used this reason to propose specific unit changes, not IDEA to add a new unit, i'd say "good job, it's already fixed in Equilibrium". And there would be constructive discussion about this, not "go learn game first".

While I did suggest some knew units, it wasn't the main point. My main idea was to highlight Seraphim inferiority and that they need cost/characteristics tweaks. Like greater range for Othuums, greater health or damage for Thaams. Chicken bots are good enough anyway. And yes, a naval exp would be nice.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 03 Mar 2016, 00:41

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-02-28T08:12:01+02:00

Interestingly enough had a somewhat similar discussion on this with Balthassar, author of BrewLAN. He had added a rapid fire artillery to Seraphim to address the experimental gap. Its somewhat like a stationary Scathis (which his mod also made the Scathis immobile and longer ranged). It fires like a 3 lobed pinwheel, great work on the animation etc.

The thing I suggested, was making it more in line with the Seraphim - a ball lightning gun. Have it fire scaled down Othuy in a salvo of 3, area denial like the Salvation or Scathis but using lightning like the T3 mobile AA or Ythotha death critter. The issue is making sure the fire rate, ball lightning dwell time and range don't make it too overpowered. Testing it with firing an Othuy, the Othuy themselves unmodified are too powerful. In BrewLAN as the Othuy is a unit it would actually behave like the Ivan Drop Pod Artillery he also made (essentially an FA version of the Noah Cannon in SC2, though it only fires 3 units at a time instead of 24).

So my suggestion is add an Othuy Cannon as an area denial weapon, adjusting the damage, range etc accordingly with other experimental arty.

Statistics: Posted by Saxxon — 28 Feb 2016, 08:12

Re: Seraphim Equality

2016-02-28T01:21:41+02:00

biass wrote:
This level of uninformed opinions being spammed onto necro threads would be considered spam imo, where is gently when you need him xD

Do not put sniperbots 'behind othuums' keep then farrrrrrrrrr away from any percival but tbh not winning with sera in t2 is probably your death sentence unless you luv game enders

Im okay for people to contribute to balance discussion but spamming and with some bad opinions probably needs to stop

1 month old is a necro thread? Really?

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 28 Feb 2016, 01:21