Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-07T10:38:54+02:00

@ violance
No problem. I was under the impression this is a "suggestion" and not neccessarily a "suggestion how to fix" thread.

@ d-_-b
"more like "it's working good enough already", i guess. the problem is more that there is no solution that is objectively easier, and/or not already overloaded by some other function."

I am not sure this is true. Just because you can't think of one doesn't mean there is none. Hence, this is the entire point of all threads under "suggestions". Some suggestion will be unworkable and simply bad, others may turn out use- and helpful.
I wish suggestions would be met a little more open minded and evaluated neutrally. Giving suggestion x and receving response "there is already y" often reflects: we have something that works, thats good enough, no matter what x is, why bother.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 07 May 2016, 10:38

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-06T13:39:35+02:00

Blackster wrote:
Be more accurate, use (new) hotkeys are all ways to deal with it, yes. But it all come with costs (memorizing keyboard/looking down). its just not intuitive, needs another device next to mouse. It's not game breaking but not as user-firendly as - in this case - mouse only I think.

I would say that it is essential to the game. Your are controlling an army with mouse and keyboard. The units go where you point. So if you can't use the mouse accurately, you wont be as effective.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 06 May 2016, 13:39

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-06T00:37:48+02:00

I still click on the little patrol button in the bottom left.

Statistics: Posted by stalewee — 06 May 2016, 00:37

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T22:15:42+02:00

>By memorizing I was not refering to the letter but primarily to the position of the key, Not everyone knows all the positions of all keys blindly.
you get to know it quickly from using it... not knowing the keyboard layout is a bigger issue than FA. i guess you don't use hotbuild then...

>Why right click contexutal manuals always are awkward, I don't know (unless they are time sensitive).
because the game has to decide what you mean, you are not telling it exactly. for example...

>Reclaiming is not patroling, thus I would not include this here.
you have to click exactly on the reclaim to issue a reclaim order, otherwise you get an annoying move command. pressing RECLAIM gets rid of this annoying "awkwardness" of contextual commands, it KNOWS what you want.

>I see a possible problem with placing units because you have to keep the right button pressed for that movement as well.
exactly, holding right click already has a function.

>In general it feels a bit like some have the "it's working, that's good enough" mentality here. Since I work on usability things occasionally, I was just wondering if things could be tweaked maybe.
more like "it's working good enough already", i guess. the problem is more that there is no solution that is objectively easier, and/or not already overloaded by some other function.

for example, to use hotbuild instead of build-mode removes ONE key press in making buildings, but you have to pay for that with almost your entire keyboard taken up by hotbuild binds and not other stuff you may want..

Statistics: Posted by d-_-b — 05 May 2016, 22:15

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T18:49:33+02:00

You can say what you like Ninrai, but denying that there are many things that need to be fixed right now before making suggestions is pretty naive.

As stated by Hawkei and speed2 (we are in concurrence) you really should be aiming to set this up on your own and practice it to get it as fast as possible. A mod that makes something simpler for you should only be done in the most dire of circumstances.

Build templates are definitely a BIG apm-freeing feature but it's out now, and people know how to use it.

I'm so strongly opposed against doing anything other than focusing on fixing what is broken right now that it really seems illogical to make requests. Do you understand? I apologize for the harshness of my tone, but that is the situation we are in whether you realize it, like it, or not.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 05 May 2016, 18:49

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T16:38:50+02:00

Violence wrote:
Learn to play the game properly instead of adding more poison, please... We have enough features being broken and breaking other things at this time.

Very mature and reasonable as well as striking in-depth argument. Thanks, really helpful

@ d-_-b
By memorizing I was not refering to the letter but primarily to the position of the key, Not everyone knows all the positions of all keys blindly.
Why right click contexutal manuals always are awkward, I don't know (unless they are time sensitive).
Reclaiming is not patroling, thus I would not include this here.
I see a possible problem with placing units because you have to keep the right button pressed for that movement as well.
Other than that personally I think the advanced patroling could make life a little more comfortable and I would like to try that if I could create a mod for it (which I can't).
In general it feels a bit like some have the "it's working, that's good enough" mentality here. Since I work on usability things occasionally, I was just wondering if things could be tweaked maybe.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 05 May 2016, 16:38

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T16:45:21+02:00

i dont see how shift+ctrl+RMB is any easier than P+LMB.

also your overload of hold right click + left click is already used for formation move.

scout P->LMB over enemy bases takes like 1s...

If you think P is awkward, rebind it.

right-clicking contextual commands are always awkward... manual reclaim is almost impossible with it without taking far too much time and concentration, so we press the reclaim button and spam left clicks instead. there will always be additoinal overhead for an interface option without providing additional context like pressing a command key.

"P" for "Patrol" is hardly difficult to memorise though, and if you set the hotkey yourself surely memorisation should be trivial.

fyi, i have it on C.

ctrl+S (select scout) C (patrol) clicky clicky. ezmode.

Statistics: Posted by d-_-b — 05 May 2016, 16:37

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T16:16:03+02:00

Learn to play the game properly instead of adding more poison, please... We have enough features being broken and breaking other things at this time.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 05 May 2016, 16:16

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T11:38:06+02:00

Be more accurate, use (new) hotkeys are all ways to deal with it, yes. But it all come with costs (memorizing keyboard/looking down). its just not intuitive, needs another device next to mouse. It's not game breaking but not as user-firendly as - in this case - mouse only I think.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 05 May 2016, 11:38

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T11:30:22+02:00

Just set a new hotkey... I set patrols with shift + R in less than half a second

Statistics: Posted by angus000 — 05 May 2016, 11:30

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T11:10:15+02:00

the idea of usability is that something can be used easily WITHOUT having to work for it (unless u consider this work an essential part of the game).
its like saying: remove templates and work on increasing apm. you consider that a good thing? i dont.

Statistics: Posted by --- — 05 May 2016, 11:10

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T11:05:49+02:00

Blackster wrote:
takes more time and accuracy

Work on improving this...

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 05 May 2016, 11:05

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T10:44:11+02:00

takes more time and accuracy

Statistics: Posted by --- — 05 May 2016, 10:44

Re: Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T10:33:37+02:00

How about you set several waypoint and they you rightclick the first one to create the patrol?

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 05 May 2016, 10:33

Advanced patroling

2016-05-05T10:08:05+02:00

Hey,

what if you could patrol/scout this way (e.g. scout plane):
- chose unit; select destination of unit (right click)
- now instead of pressing p for patrol keep right click pressed - and add way points with left click

or simply enable way point setting with SHIFT + CTRL and right clicks

Statistics: Posted by --- — 05 May 2016, 10:08