Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2012-10-21T04:47:52+02:00 /feed.php?f=42&t=2055 2012-10-21T04:47:52+02:00 2012-10-21T04:47:52+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=22040#p22040 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 21 Oct 2012, 04:47


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2012-10-21T02:50:55+02:00 2012-10-21T02:50:55+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=22038#p22038 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by ZOB — 21 Oct 2012, 02:50


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2012-10-20T21:57:16+02:00 2012-10-20T21:57:16+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=22012#p22012 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]>
- Ping: This is the average time it takes for packets to make a round trip from your PC to another PC, usually expressed in milliseconds. Anything less than or equal to 500 (one half second) is perfectly fine for FA, since the simulation forces all events to occur with a 500ms delay to begin with.

- Lag: This is what happens when one or more players have a ping that is consistently higher than 500ms. The simulation stops until the packets are received.

- Bandwidth: The connection speed of a player, typically represented as kilobytes per second. Most ISPs provide much higher download bandwidth than upload bandwidth; since FA uses a peer to peer networking model, meaning that all players must send data to every other player, upload speed is what will likely be your bottleneck. Also note that FA has fairly miniscule bandwidth requirements, so unless you're playing via a satellite phone, you're probably fine.

What causes most "lag" in games, and how does one solve it?

For starters, "lag" is one of the most hilariously misused terms I've seen. For example, if one's game is running at a low framerate, they might claim that they are "lagging". This is false. Their frame rate is low, but this is not affecting the simulation speed (unless, perhaps, they're playing on an integrated GPU on a low end mobile chip such as an Atom, in which case the added GPU load would directly affect CPU performance, and they really shouldn't be playing to begin with).

If a game is truly lagging, it's most likely caused by a (temporary?) lack of upload or download bandwidth. In case you were wondering, downloading or uploading large files while playing is a Bad Idea unless you are 100% certain that your connection can handle it. Check to see if someone else is using your network. Maybe secure that wireless router while you're at it.

If that's not it, it could simply be due to Bad Luck and two people have a bad connection to each other for whatever reason. Either deal with the slower speed, and use the added time to micro your units to do useful things instead of stay idle for seconds at a time, or rehost without one of those players.

Check your upload and download speed via speedtest.net to make sure your bandwidth isn't truly abysmal. Some ISPs may throttle your connection, or simply be overloaded at peak times.

Lastly, it is not "lag" when the game's simulation slows due to an abundance of units or extremely long gameplay times. That has nothing to do with the network, as only the player's commands are sent, not their units. Technically, people with higher APMs cause more lag than anyone else. :)

"But your ping is high; look it even shows it in a red color therefore you're the lagger!"

No, you simply need a remedial lesson in How The Internet Works. :)
To the game engine, any ping that is less than or equal to 500 is physically indistinguishable from a ping of 2. Only when the ping exceeds 500 does the game begin to lag. Don't be one of those players who kicks people based on their country or because of the color of their ping.

"<anything that mentions the "host" or other client-server terminology>"

This is something else that's depressingly common. From a networking standpoint, there is no concept of clients and hosts in FA. It uses a peer to peer networking model, and as such, the "host's ping" means precisely the same amount as any other player's.

"But Elbonians always lag!"

No, they don't. It's an absurd and illogical generalization that's roughly equivalent to racism.

It depends entirely on the individual player's connection. I've played games with Australians many, many times with zero issues, and I've played games with people in the US who must have been on a 2G internet connection attached to a netbook.

If someone is causing the game to lag, rehost. If you are in a ranked game with someone who lags, either ask for a draw and find another opponent, or Deal With It and use the added time to micro even harder and own him. ;)

Sources
- http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3592 ... IMBmIYUOqk
- http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3 ... twork_.php
- GPGNet forums where devs described various bits and pieces of the networking, in long-forgotten posts that I'm too lazy to find
- My own experience from writing the networking engines in several games
- Common Sense :)

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 20 Oct 2012, 21:57


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2012-10-18T17:06:52+02:00 2012-10-18T17:06:52+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21915#p21915 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]>
Shoot wrote:
ping works both ways...

You can't imagine how many people ignore that :)

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 18 Oct 2012, 17:06


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2012-10-18T12:13:15+02:00 2012-10-18T12:13:15+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21906#p21906 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 18 Oct 2012, 12:13


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2012-10-18T12:06:40+02:00 2012-10-18T12:06:40+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21905#p21905 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by Shoot — 18 Oct 2012, 12:06


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2012-10-18T11:25:14+02:00 2012-10-18T11:25:14+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21901#p21901 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> I agree with ToejamS and Ze_Pilot here.

It's not useful to add such a function.

Statistics: Posted by Voodoo — 18 Oct 2012, 11:25


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2012-10-18T10:58:14+02:00 2012-10-18T10:58:14+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21900#p21900 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> Statistics: Posted by ToejamS — 18 Oct 2012, 10:58


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2012-10-17T15:37:38+02:00 2012-10-17T15:37:38+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21863#p21863 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]>
Ok understand, just wanted to know if there was something that could be done to fix this.
And BTW, it's not only me as I'm just watching a replay of someone that experiences the same painful experience (Russia vs Korea).

Statistics: Posted by JeanLu — 17 Oct 2012, 15:37


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2012-10-17T15:19:46+02:00 2012-10-17T15:19:46+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21862#p21862 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> Rarely because of the ping itself.

So the only solution would be to test extensively each connection before starting the game, it's unreliable (can be good for 5 sec and overall bad for 30 min) and difficult to do for only a very, very few cases.

If your only concern is to not play long 1v1, just quit or propose a draw. I won't spend one day of my life coding something that can eventually save you 30 min of yours. That's not effective.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 17 Oct 2012, 15:19


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2012-10-17T15:16:08+02:00 2012-10-17T15:16:08+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21860#p21860 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]>
what I can say is that every time I play 1v1 against Korea/Australia, it lags. Every time i play against Europe/US it is OK.
I don't really care about the reason but there is a simple way to address this : make sure the ping is correct before starting a 1v1 match.
I'm not saying that their Internet is poor, I'm just saying that we have horrible games together.
It may be my Internet provider, my computer, theirs or the devil in disguise, I don't really care but my concern is to avoid a 1h play for a smal map!

Statistics: Posted by JeanLu — 17 Oct 2012, 15:16


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2012-10-17T10:10:18+02:00 2012-10-17T10:10:18+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21850#p21850 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]>
I agree with the statement of V ... check your connection before you start complaining about others...

BUT ... for automatches it would be not so hard to implement a ping check between the opponents, or? E.g. reject all opponents you have a ping over 500 ms or so ... I know, that we have to make changes to the lobby by our own as pilot has no time for it, but maybe someone wants to do it? :)
Maybe JeanLu? ;)

Statistics: Posted by discoverer2k4 — 17 Oct 2012, 10:10


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2012-10-17T06:55:57+02:00 2012-10-17T06:55:57+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21844#p21844 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]>
So we can play rather smoothly with 8 players from different countries including Australia , South America, Russia etc, but you can't play smoothly 1v1 ? :roll:

There might be cases where the connection BETWEEN you 2 is bad for some reason, but stop making it a usual case. It's already hard enough to try to break the misconceptions in game, so let's not spread the bs on the forums too.

It's incredible that after so many years of experience in this game, people still continue to "accuse" other of laggin because of the COLOURS set to the ping values... I mean seriously ????

So JeanLu if you experience PERMANENT issues, you should check (or have it checked for you) your own connection. Cause last time I checked (I'm french too), the french internet service was kinda poor compared to , well korean one for instance, or singaporean or honk kong one and by quite a large margin ;) . I live there, I know. Always makes me laugh when I see those european talk shit about asian connections when it's quite the opposite.



Australia different deal , well it was 3 years ago in my case. But I played FA extensively while I was living in Australia, and except for some very rare occasions it was really fine in ... * EIGHT* players games. The lag came late game because of the cpu and only the cpu.

Again if you experience permanent issues, check your own connection for lost packets rather than looking at the ping values only.

Use the console and type ren_shownetworkstarts then check the column with data and behind. Behind, not good, data, goooooood

Statistics: Posted by -_V_- — 17 Oct 2012, 06:55


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2012-10-16T20:55:33+02:00 2012-10-16T20:55:33+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21834#p21834 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> And I'm very sure about laggy games when my opponent is in Australia or Korea (yes, they are !). This is not a question of a temporary poor internet connexion but a permanent issue. I'd like to play against Asia/Australia but we share such a terrible ping!
What I would suggest if possible would be to select two opponents for 1v1 automatch only if they share a reasonable ping.

Statistics: Posted by JeanLu — 16 Oct 2012, 20:55


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2012-10-16T20:23:44+02:00 2012-10-16T20:23:44+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=2055&p=21831#p21831 <![CDATA[Re: Please avoid laggy games in ladder]]> also i want to mention that i have perhaps like 1 of 30 games a lagging game, so i guess you should think about your own internet connection instead of searching the porblems at the Korean in supcom (are there Koreans in Supcom...??)

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 16 Oct 2012, 20:23


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