Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-09T16:53:41+02:00

PLEASE read and understand this:
http://www.faforever.com/mediawiki/inde ... kill_works

thank you...

If you want other game speeds ask for another ladder or a 2nd rating. Ah ... don't forget to ask if we can have a seperate rating for Setons, No Air, Survival, Thermo, XtremeWars, Vanilla, Claustrophobia, LABwars and so on.

Pilot or the others will be happy to implement that

If you don't understand the trueskill wiki - ask if somebody can explain it to you.

Statistics: Posted by discoverer2k4 — 09 Jan 2013, 16:53

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-09T00:14:38+02:00

feel free to play FA on any speed, just not ranked

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 09 Jan 2013, 00:14

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T23:55:28+02:00

Batmansrueckkehr wrote:
no offence, but u should play some round based strategy and not real time. maybe chess or something like that....

it is a challenge to do all things at once at the same time. those who can do that best (and do the right things ofc) win the game.
and i think we got the picture, but somehow u dont see it.
sure would be efficient to pause once a min to get all orders done i want to - but this would be no skil, challenge - fun!?

as i said. this is real time and not round based.

Actualy this is a game with different options of playing. Not just one. From -9 to +9. Or with pause while u give orders..Otherwise why are so many mods there? Why isn't everyone playing only forged alliance original? So why should we condemn these options if they are avaliable? If they weren't meant to be used why bother putting them in?

ZaphodX wrote:
I think the problem Shabba is that no-one who knows how to play would even consider playing at a slower speed. It would also make games so much longer!

Anyone should able to choose how he/she wants to play. And if you ask me, i'd rather play 1 nice war for 2h than 5 rush and tumble wars in those 2h.
I will repeat again. I dont wish to take anything away from how it is atm, i would just like to see sth added.

Statistics: Posted by shabbathai — 08 Jan 2013, 23:55

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T21:53:36+02:00

So if FA was created with +3 as the default, you all would be clamoring speed 0 would be too slow to consider? Something like that?

Statistics: Posted by Wakke — 08 Jan 2013, 21:53

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T17:34:53+02:00

Batmansrueckkehr wrote:
no offence, but u should play some round based strategy and not real time. maybe chess or something like that....

it is a challenge to do all things at once at the same time. those who can do that best (and do the right things ofc) win the game.
and i think we got the picture, but somehow u dont see it.
sure would be efficient to pause once a min to get all orders done i want to - but this would be no skil, challenge - fun!?

as i said. this is real time and not round based.

agreed, more or less my opinion

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 08 Jan 2013, 17:34

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T17:25:10+02:00

no offence, but u should play some round based strategy and not real time. maybe chess or something like that....

it is a challenge to do all things at once at the same time. those who can do that best (and do the right things ofc) win the game.
and i think we got the picture, but somehow u dont see it.
sure would be efficient to pause once a min to get all orders done i want to - but this would be no skil, challenge - fun!?

as i said. this is real time and not round based.

Statistics: Posted by Batmansrueckkehr — 08 Jan 2013, 17:25

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T17:15:46+02:00

I think the problem Shabba is that no-one who knows how to play would even consider playing at a slower speed. It would also make games so much longer!

Statistics: Posted by ZaphodX — 08 Jan 2013, 17:15

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T17:02:24+02:00

Would be nice if you guys would read the posts above the last one too.. Not just the title and then what you think of it .. different solutions have been offered. See, i guess its needed to say again, its mostly the point here to raise the popularity for slower game speed. Since everbody thinks they HAVE to play at 0, just so they can find themselves somewhere in the ranking. Im sure solutions or compromises can be found. Nothing would be taken away, only better things added. And game speed would be set before the game( e.g. fixed speed -4).
Maybe there could be 2 leagues. Pro's can play on 0. Others on lower speeds.
Im sure we can find and implement something one day. No hurry. Just dont criticize before you get the whole picture.
I mean, most of you would admit that you still get lost sometimes when the action gets going hard. And thats after you've played 1000s of games.. So some new guy should play around 5k games to start feeling comfortable? ..thats unrealistic for me.

Statistics: Posted by shabbathai — 08 Jan 2013, 17:02

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T16:03:54+02:00

The rating (trueskill) is made to define the skill of a player, hereby its possible to host well balanced games - making things predictable...
Skill includes the ability to do as much things as possible parallel. To compare peoples skill it is necessary to give the rating system a CONSTANT! This is the gamespeed, or the defined properties of the unit (buildpower/dps and so on) or the engine of the game or the economy system.
If you take one of these constants and make it variable you can't compare the skill of the players anymore - THE RATING WILL LOSE A LOT OF SIGNIFICANCE. This is the reason why all the other mods, some special settings and so on are not included in the rating system. You get more and more variables which can't never reduced to a common denominator.

For example:
A player who played only -3 games and reached a rating of 1900 is never comparable to a player with equaly rating who has played only 0 speed games. If they would play a game against each other at 0 gamespeed, they wouldn't be on a same level.
That's the same with players who only play No Air, No Exp, No Rush...

All you can do is, set the gamespeed to -3 or -5 constantly. That means, force ALL the players to play at low speed. But this won't happen definitly/hopefully.

We know - 0 game speed is sometimes hard - especially on a ressource-rich map in an 1vs1 situation - you need to do a lot. One big advantage is in those situations you can try to overrun your opponent or distract your opponent or whatever. In a slow game these strategic options aren't viable. Your opponent will see nearly "everything"... thats why the mandotory don't like it apart from that it takes ages to end a game.

If you don't understand what we tried to tell you, than read the wiki -> trueskill.
I'm not sure, if you already understood that.

If you just wanna have an award or something for your wins against the other slowmo-noobs - than start a regular tournament or whatever.
Or better ... adjust your cpu multiplier to a low value, that you just have 1.4 Ghz or something. Than you can play ranked games at a very low speed dude

It has a reason that the gamespeed is fixed for ranked games!
Otherwise we could include minesweeper and tic tac toe to the rating system as well

Statistics: Posted by discoverer2k4 — 08 Jan 2013, 16:03

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-08T15:28:34+02:00

the faster the speed the harder it is to play.

so if it would be rated with lower game speed, the advantage a player who can play with fast gamespeed better, is lost. and for what? gamespeed 0 is a good compromise between very fast and very slow of course and should be the speed a game is rated.

i see no reason why adjustable gamespeed should be rated.

if you have fun with -2 gamespeed, np go with it. but dont expect others to rate u with that speed. and as voodoo says - there are always ppl who would adjust the speed just as they like to anoy you. and what do u do if someone preferes gamespeed -10. he wants not a 6h game like you but a 20h game to watch every tree which gets reclaimed and so on... should that be rated? do you think that skill is needed there?

and it is not that sheppard wants to make fun of you or something but he is right here. it is not about "be open minded" it is about to be realistic.

Statistics: Posted by Batmansrueckkehr — 08 Jan 2013, 15:28

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-06T14:03:54+02:00

I think the difference between the normal and slow games is that the normal speed provides some of the skill differentiation. If we have one player who is slightly slower to react than the other, then they are more likely to lose focus at some point on the game and it cost them the win. This happens regularly, I know this probably is what makes me lose most of my games. Often its less about the way the people try to play each other, and more about the mistakes they made. Thats why I think slow gameplay has a place in FA, but its not something that needs to be ranked/rated.

Statistics: Posted by Softly — 06 Jan 2013, 14:03

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-06T13:03:41+02:00

whatever you will never find a majority for this anyway

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 06 Jan 2013, 13:03

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-06T12:33:00+02:00

I disagree that -3 encourages noob play. It gives everyone more time for tactics, pro or noob.

Statistics: Posted by Wakke — 06 Jan 2013, 12:33

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-06T12:27:01+02:00

thats exactly what i mean: lower gamespeed is not the same, it's way easier to play

GPG could have maked the game -3 by default if the wold have wanted players to have more time for thinking, one of the cool aspects is that, in order to become very good you ahve to do many things at the same time (something i still lack in)
i also did not say that everybody playing on -3 is a noob, i said playing on -3 encourages noob play, just like learning java with BlueJ encourages noob programing

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 06 Jan 2013, 12:27

Re: Games with adjustable speed should be ranked too.

2013-01-06T12:23:09+02:00

I would welcome games at a fixed slower speed. More time for maneuvres and tactics that way.

Statistics: Posted by Wakke — 06 Jan 2013, 12:23