Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-25T12:55:55+02:00

Thx guys,

So your oppinion is for me suggestion or against?

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 25 Mar 2014, 12:55

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-25T04:12:40+02:00

I can absolutely guarantee that Templates were first developed in response to Adjacency's importance increasing the micro in the Developer's low-micro game.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 25 Mar 2014, 04:12

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-25T03:59:10+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Adjacency is there as another thing to separate two otherwise even player with a tiny advantage to the one who CHOOSES to use it... Or indeed a tiny disadvantage to the one doing it when they do it unwisely. Not only does it allow you to make a decision to try and eke an advantage, it is the kind of thing which an enemy can CHOOSE to use against you.

Exactly this.

A lot of players don't understand that SupCom is a game all about the little details. Just as many people want every unit to have a clearly defined role, where if you want to do 'x' task you build 'y' unit to do it, many players don't understand the 'point' of adjacency because it doesn't seem to make that big a difference whether you take advantage of it or not.

But adjacency really can make differences all throughout the game. To name a few examples off the top of my head that haven't already been pointed out: T1 air factories+hydrocarbon, nuclear missile silo+T3 pgens, T3 radar+pgen, factories+T3 fab, TML+fab. And as IceDreamer pointed out, these are not dramatic, game-deciding differences, nor should they be. They're small, subtle differences that can give you just enough of an edge to win, as long as you don't let your opponent use them against you. Which is exactly how it's supposed to be.

And as far as adjacency not being worth the mirco... Build templates, anyone?

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 25 Mar 2014, 03:59

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-24T01:26:19+02:00

Adjacency is there as another thing to separate two otherwise even player with a tiny advantage to the one who CHOOSES to use it... Or indeed a tiny disadvantage to the one doing it when they do it unwisely. Not only does it allow you to make a decision to try and eke an advantage, it is the kind of thing which an enemy can CHOOSE to use against you.

Regarding T2 Artillery, it's not generally worth it, but in a forward base for example, a T2 PGen with a Shield on one side and T2 Artillery on the other sides is definitely worth the bonus, IF you are sure you can defend it.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 24 Mar 2014, 01:26

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-22T18:20:31+02:00

T3 gens + T3 arty is COMPLETELY worth it. A T3 arty surrounded by 4 T3 gens fires around 40% faster and is extremely mass effective.

As to the T2 arty, I don't see the point.... there is rarely enough space to build a checkerboard, and if there is I would rather have more space to move around between buildings. The only time I do it is if I plan to build T2 arty from the get go. When I am building t1 power early game in different locations, build a diamond of 4 somewhere. Later you can add t1 radar in a corner, if you need a firebase you can add a shield on another corner for 2 adjacency, and if you do decide to go on with the arty plan plop one down in the center.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 22 Mar 2014, 18:20

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-22T15:02:31+02:00

If you build T3 pgen around t2 Arty it will fire about every 12 seconds
Not really worth it, i know, but it's interesting
Also, T3 Power lets other arty like mavor fire way faster than t1 power does

Statistics: Posted by CrayzyNath — 22 Mar 2014, 15:02

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-22T12:59:44+02:00

from what i know, surrounding a t2 arty reduces the reload time from 20 to 18 seconds
thats reducing it to 90% of the reload time, or a 10% reduction.
this manes one pgen gives a 2.5% reduction.

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=URB1101,URB2303

from the unit db we can see that that is not worth it, as the pgens take a higher proportion of the mass cost. (300/1680 > 10%)

however, when putting one pgen adjacent to 2 t2 arties IS worth it, so checkerboxing arty with pgens is a good idea imo

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 22 Mar 2014, 12:59

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-21T11:22:26+02:00

Surrounding a t2 arty with t1 gens gives a buff of maybe 6%, I'd say. Often its not worth the limitted space under a shield or the increased buildtime, because of stupid engies blocking each other.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 21 Mar 2014, 11:22

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-21T10:33:19+02:00

Unless its in a really well protected place... I would prefer not to surround my expensive arty with explosives....

3 arty firing at the same time is better for shield penetration than 2 arty firing faster...

Statistics: Posted by SomeoneAUS — 21 Mar 2014, 10:33

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-21T09:07:35+02:00

SomeoneAUS wrote:
Arty increases speed when surrounded by power but its better to just build more arty.

I'd like to see math on this, because t2 Arty is super expensive and t1 pgens are not. I don't think it's better to build more arty.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 21 Mar 2014, 09:07

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-21T08:15:25+02:00

Its a bonus v risk thing... The problem is its basically never worth it. Maybe the bonus needs to be increased so that it is more likely to be worth it. Arty increases speed when surrounded by power but its better to just build more arty. Mex is about the only thing worth while...

Statistics: Posted by SomeoneAUS — 21 Mar 2014, 08:15

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-21T03:45:01+02:00

i say it is a bad system because it adds no depth to the game. it's just kind of there making you use it to not be at a disadvantage to you oponent, who uses it too. but it adds nothing by itself.

most of the bonuses from adjacency are not even worth the micro! let alone build time (think of surrounding t3 gens with storages for example).

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 21 Mar 2014, 03:45

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-21T03:34:43+02:00

Lionhardt wrote:
I really don't see the point in the whole adjacency system. Imo it was a bad design decision that just survived because... getting rid of it would require massive rebalancing...? That's the only reason I can come up with... maybe somebody feels like defending the idea behind the adjacency system.

Defend it how though? Hard to defend it if you haven't said why you think its bad in the first place. I like the adjancency system since I think it adds to a players options and I think it would be nice if it was expanded on in some ways like what Ithilis_Quo is suggesting. As for that I think your second idea is the better one Ithilis.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 21 Mar 2014, 03:34

Re: Shield upgrade

2014-03-21T02:23:17+02:00

Well, I see your point but I don't agree. As of now, placing shields near gens is not really wort it in the lategame. The power you save is not wort the risk of loosing the shield when the gen gets destroyed. But does it really make the game better to have those additional bonus(es) you are suggesting and therewith more incentive to place shields in adjacency to gens? I don't think so. Though you could say the same thing about the whole adjacency concept. Imo it adds nothing to the game, expect for mexes... maybe. Though those could just have 2 more upgrade levels.

I really don't see the point in the whole adjacency system. Imo it was a bad design decision that just survived because... getting rid of it would require massive rebalancing...? That's the only reason I can come up with... maybe somebody feels like defending the idea behind the adjacency system.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 21 Mar 2014, 02:23

Shield upgrade

2014-03-18T20:25:51+02:00

Hi guys,
I got one idea for discus, maybe it will had positive reaction maybe not, but here is it:

Give static shield who is link with energy plant some another advantage with lower energy upkeep.
Similar like is with static artilery, when it is linked with energy from all side it fire 50% faster and has lower E upkeep.

My fisrst idea is give shield more shield hp by % of builded side and tech lvl of power plant.
My second idea is give bigger regeneration rate and lower recharge time by % of builded side and tech lvl of power plant.

it had opposite position like artilery it will be nice when it will had some another advantage who will push player to do risky energy build near. More risky thinks = more fun, with one looks better on replays

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 18 Mar 2014, 20:25