Forged Alliance Forever

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-09T11:46:57+02:00

Sorry guys, was absent for some time. Thanks for the replies and feedback.

@ZLO_RD = I like your thought.
@partytime = I often thought of that as well. It changes the game mode entirely (from RTS to TBS) though. Likewise, I also liked the reply of zeroAPM
@Dragonfire =

A delay at the start to discuss things ...
Like a "Tactical briefing" ....

About exactly the same words I often typed in chat before game starts, except for the word "Tactical"
If someone wants to make a standalone mod based on that idea, go ahead.

Some personal notes and thoughts:
- About balance = I understand and can't really disagree. Personally I don't really want to see a lot changed, I try to see it as a standalone mod, like an extra thing on top of the game as is. "If" one day working, it might get balanced separately like Engy mod nowadays (which is fully integrated if I'm not mistaken). It does encourage good "discussion" with the team in order to win the pixel fight
- An ingame language filter of some sort, although I support freedom of speech. To me, that's something built in, to some not I too often notice. I think some of you might know what I mean by that. Goal = less rage quitting for some and thus a(n even more) better community and games. To put it in an example: if everytime I read some particular words would pop a flower, I would have had an entire garden by now already.

Cheers all

Statistics: Posted by Centric — 09 Oct 2014, 11:46

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-08T18:42:47+02:00

sounds like a good idea maybe a bit over thought and "complicated" but overall I think it could possibly work with the right software

Statistics: Posted by ShadowInTheDark — 08 Oct 2014, 18:42

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-08T02:16:51+02:00

lol yeah, think more 5x5 maps

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 08 Oct 2014, 02:16

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-07T19:01:53+02:00

partytime wrote:
So this thought is such a tangent that it doesn't belong in this thread at all - but - what about a mod that turns FA into a turn based game? It would be on pause until both players make their orders and press 'next' and then five seconds of game time would play out (in which time ui is unusable). Repeat.

Day 86 of the 54th Seton's Clutch Campaign: The left side island has been lost thanks to a strike by the enemy team's air player, some Swiftwinds have been sent to eliminate enemy transports but we fear the navy player might have cruisers, the front player is under attack from the right side by navy and the enemy front player alike, is unclear if he can make it, i have been ecoing and queuing up for the first batch of ASF, if everything goes right the first one should be out within two days.

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 07 Oct 2014, 19:01

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-07T14:45:52+02:00

So this thought is such a tangent that it doesn't belong in this thread at all - but - what about a mod that turns FA into a turn based game? It would be on pause until both players make their orders and press 'next' and then five seconds of game time would play out (in which time ui is unusable). Repeat.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 07 Oct 2014, 14:45

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-07T12:04:08+02:00

I like your idea @Centric,
but the only question is the relation between effort and price.
Maybe a modder loves you idea and give it a try,
maybe it is to hard to implement ...

####

More interesting is the pause idea as standalone mod ...
A delay at the start to discuss things ...
Like a "Tactical briefing" ....

Statistics: Posted by Dragonfire — 07 Oct 2014, 12:04

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-07T09:38:23+02:00

I would make choices wildly crazy:
Twice unit speed, twice less range
Twice more range, 66% less HP (for ACU as well)
3x damage but firing randomness increased to make units miss all the time
2x mass -> 0 storage or 2x less power or not able to make land units or 25% build power

All units have free stealth but 4x less vision radius and no radars
And so on...
May take some ideas and implement into/from mazormole mod

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 07 Oct 2014, 09:38

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-07T09:20:46+02:00

This wouldn't actually be too hard to code, at least for certain types of bonus. Other than that I agree with BRNK that this is an idea which can only break things. It's never going to be balanced, stop kidding yourselves. You either have changes which mean something, and balance goes out of the window because balancing this is impossible, or you have changes which are pointless and nothing changes.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 07 Oct 2014, 09:20

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-10-07T03:29:53+02:00

wowAulex isn't me, just pointing that out

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 07 Oct 2014, 03:29

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-07-20T11:26:35+02:00

SAKO_X wrote:
i think that you two are being a bit harsh.

this mod idea will only work if it is very well balanced; so no bonus is OP or UP, but if it IS balanced then it will be similar to gun/t2 upgrade on com. each has its own place and the two can be a hard decision to choose between.

if its balanced then actually it wont break grame balance at all; since no numbers in the op were given, there is little point to talk of balance right now, but if its not well balanced then it will end up as brnk described.

what this will allow you to do is to pick a bonus to reinforce your strategy for that game, and i think this may promote creativity and variation in gameplay, so you dont see the same thing happen every single game. (you must admit you like those replays when one guy does something crazy)
(everyone go gun on canis ) and if it does then i think this will be a good idea, not because the mod is so amazing but because of the gameplay it encourages
(teamwork, creativity, cheese).

more importantly, here is an example of someone trying to contribute to the community and we should encourage this sort of stuff to happen and help it flourish, even if its not always a good idea, becuase we are a small community and benefit from any contribution. (personally i think this mod could go either way)

as for coding, phantom x already gives mass bonuses to some players, so its not as hard as you think, as some of it has been done before.

having said that, i think this will still be hard to make (and just as hard to balance properly), and you may have to do it yourself. if you dont/wont/cant then im afraid that it might not be a reality.
i think you should still give modding a try, its amazing what you can do if you put yourself to it, good luck making this real!

Thnx for the replies. Every bit of logic is welcome here and I can't really disagree.
When I posted this thread, I already knew there would be pro's and con's to it, so no offense if you speak up at all.

Yesterday I had a short chat about this with wowAulex in the chat lobby. He needed a lunch break, so we couldn't talk about it forever though . By the way Aulex: if you read this: hope you enjoyed your meal .

Anyway, since I was afraid for the OP-warnings, I also suggested in my first post to perhaps adding a downside to it.

So simply put: each player chooses a bonus, but should choose a downside as well.
Imo, you'd think nobody would ever pick a "- #% mass", and I agree in a 1v1, but what if you have a team and somebody chooses to compensate that for you? To be honest, I do not intend to force mass/energy bonuses or something like that, I'm just suggesting some minor extra advantages and thus disadvantages as well for good co-op players to figure out. I'm not a pro, so I don't know which bonuses or downsides to sum up in order to not break the game.

Aulex suggested to couple the bonus and downside together, which is a good possibility that crossed my mind already when starting this thread. This might have one downside though. Let me use an example (imagine you are now ingame and using this mod thingy ):

You go bomber first against a player. When your bomb drops on a engineer, it's still alive. By then you could have figured out that player opted for a health bonus on the engineer.

Suggesting you already know the coupled downside to that bonus, imo it's too easy to shout to your team mates: "Djents, that player is more vulnerable there!"
That's why I'd opt for a non-coupled bonus and downside. During the force pause at the start of the game, this can be discussed.

Also, you (singular or plural) don't need to pull out the bonus card first.
F.e.: don't use an overpowered bomber first, but keep it as a last resort or something like that (when all seems lost f.e. end game). Even when the opposite team scouts it, they might not be able to tell it's OPed or not and thus not considering it a threat.
Or... and please do not forget that: underpowered
F.e.: "Well djents, I'm building a Mavor. Let them scout it and focus on it. Little do they know that won't be the main threat, since I chose to underpower all artillery based structures. And no worries: as a bonus, I chose (f.e., just brainstorming a bit here) "- #% cost on artillery based structures".

If you play in a team and you know each other and the opposite team members (like I see in high ranked replay matches where you guys rock in co-op), this is an extra thing to encourage the team, mind game and surprises indeed. Imo even every good player can have a "DAMN I NEED A LOT OF COFFEES NOW BECAUSE I'M SLOOOOOW IN ATTACKS PER MINUTE"-day. Here this mod could help and use your mind a bit .

Personally, I think I couldn't take the initiative to start programming the mod, which doesn't mean I can't once community starts to accept the "trial" being tested by high ranked players. Either way I see it: they make or break this concept. They know each and every number, advantage, weakness and so on for each faction. I don't. And as usual, I say that as a humble noob .

PS: @BRNKoINSANITY: what IF every player chooses ACU speed bonus? Then what's their downside? And even if you disregard the downside, you could have the ACU speed bonus as well, still taking profit of your well-known faction advantages

Statistics: Posted by Centric — 20 Jul 2014, 11:26

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-07-20T00:13:23+02:00

i think that you two are being a bit harsh.

this mod idea will only work if it is very well balanced; so no bonus is OP or UP, but if it IS balanced then it will be similar to gun/t2 upgrade on com. each has its own place and the two can be a hard decision to choose between.

if its balanced then actually it wont break grame balance at all; since no numbers in the op were given, there is little point to talk of balance right now, but if its not well balanced then it will end up as brnk described.

what this will allow you to do is to pick a bonus to reinforce your strategy for that game, and i think this may promote creativity and variation in gameplay, so you dont see the same thing happen every single game. (you must admit you like those replays when one guy does something crazy)
(everyone go gun on canis ) and if it does then i think this will be a good idea, not because the mod is so amazing but because of the gameplay it encourages
(teamwork, creativity, cheese).

more importantly, here is an example of someone trying to contribute to the community and we should encourage this sort of stuff to happen and help it flourish, even if its not always a good idea, becuase we are a small community and benefit from any contribution. (personally i think this mod could go either way)

as for coding, phantom x already gives mass bonuses to some players, so its not as hard as you think, as some of it has been done before.

having said that, i think this will still be hard to make (and just as hard to balance properly), and you may have to do it yourself. if you dont/wont/cant then im afraid that it might not be a reality.
i think you should still give modding a try, its amazing what you can do if you put yourself to it, good luck making this real!

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 20 Jul 2014, 00:13

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-07-19T23:32:16+02:00

This sounds like a MOBA stopgap....... it is impossible to learn everything about this game. It has been out for almost 8 years now, and the only reason there is still a good community is because the game is so complex that it is veritably impossible to master.

That said, a mechanic like this would break the balance of the game and cause all sorts of problems. If it did not break it, it would balance itself out into a useless addition because the good players would go the same route.

eg. 5km map? Everyone would be all over the ACU speed boost. The others would be mostly useless. Alternately, on large/turtle maps everyone would be picking ether the boosted shields or the t4 damage.

If anyone wants to code this (and it would be damn hard to do) then by all means try it out and I may be proven wrong. However, as I see it, this would not get played at all and would not be worth the time spent to try and make it. There is already so much to do in this game without gimmicks like that, there is really no point.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 19 Jul 2014, 23:32

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-07-19T14:51:42+02:00

zeroAPM wrote:
I don't think it would work well.

First it would be a absolute pain to program and even more of a pain to balance for every faction.

Second it doesn't really fit with the whole premise of the game, there are 4 faction and they have their own strenght and weaknessess, adding yet another layer of complexity might drive away new players (especially since things like this and engy mod are often discussed in the forum rather than the game itself, so someone that only played vanilla would find himself in a whole different game with no previous warning whatsoever).

First of all: thnx for your feedback

Mmm, perhaps consider it as a mod first, not an integration or something like that.

I do understand your point, there's reason in it.
Please note nothing about faction strengths changes though, I see it as a "hidden bonus", which can be figured out during good team play. Try not to see it as a complexity.

It might be an idea for the top ranked FAF players, since they know each and every thing about this game.
I'd like to read their opinion about this as well, comparing myself as a humble noob .

Statistics: Posted by Centric — 19 Jul 2014, 14:51

Re: [@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod id

2014-07-19T14:34:37+02:00

I don't think it would work well.

First it would be a absolute pain to program and even more of a pain to balance for every faction.

Second it doesn't really fit with the whole premise of the game, there are 4 faction and they have their own strenght and weaknessess, adding yet another layer of complexity might drive away new players (especially since things like this and engy mod are often discussed in the forum rather than the game itself, so someone that only played vanilla would find himself in a whole different game with no previous warning whatsoever).

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 19 Jul 2014, 14:34

[@ MOD DEVS & PLAYERS] = Please read and discuss, mod idea

2014-07-19T13:16:11+02:00

I have a simple idea which could add an extra layer of strategy in this game.

Simply put:

A) Game starts
B) Game goes into pause mode (leaving room as well for discussion about tactics, setting out build queues in advance as a side note)
C) Each player of a team (#v# or 1v1) sees a dialog box popped up in which the player can choose a "unique feature"

Some examples (stating this should be discussed in community):

- "+ #% mass bonus"

- "+ #% extra dmg to experimentals"

- "+ #% extra shield resistance"

- "+ #% ACU speed"

- "bla bla bla "(perhaps adding a downside to each choice is a possibility as well)

The game is in forced pause mode, so each team may discuss what to choose.
Perhaps add a timer (for reasons that should be clear ). If not picked a choice in time (f.e. an afk player), a random or default "choice" is picked.

D) After each team player picked their unique feature, game goes out of forced pause mode and starts.

Neither team knows from each other what is chosen, which can bring surprises, f.e.: one player pumps starting economy for the "strat bomber first" strategy, yet bumps on a player who chose to add extra health to engineers, which requires a bit of rethinking and adapting.

I'd like to "read" your thoughts, hoping you like my concept and thereby some mod developer picking this one up. I may help thinking out pro's and con's if you want.

If you made it this far: thanks for reading and greetings.

Statistics: Posted by Centric — 19 Jul 2014, 13:16