Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-12T08:02:40+02:00

Ionic wrote:
I agree it was a feature to have the limited intel with the Cybran T2 PD. The PD is much weaker and Cybran's PD unlisted advantage was a stealthy laser.

I never thought of it as a feature, although you make a good point. But in any case, this is faf. We call features like that 'bugs' around here.

Ionic wrote:
Everyone should stop bringing up fixing the laser as the people who patch the game have already decided that they didn't like the limited laser effect.

Sounds like all the more reason to bring it up again. And again. And again...

Ionic wrote:
If someone reads this, please put a vote to the community on the splash vs your few opinions, then we can reference the pole in future discussions.

Put a vote to the community? Including all of the members that don't even remember that there is an original effect, let alone how much better it looked? I'd be interested in seeing the results, but how would people even know what they're expected to give their opinion about?

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 12 Nov 2014, 08:02

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T22:42:15+02:00

Ionic wrote:
I agree it was a feature to have the limited intel with the Cybran T2 PD. The PD is much weaker and Cybran's PD unlisted advantage was a stealthy laser.

Everyone should stop bringing up fixing the laser as the people who patch the game have already decided that they didn't like the limited laser effect.

If someone reads this, please put a vote to the community on the splash vs your few opinions, then we can reference the pole in future discussions.

There's not much point in a poll when the potential fix is both theoretical and a long way off. I think we should cross this hurdle when we reach it.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 11 Nov 2014, 22:42

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T22:30:28+02:00

I agree it was a feature to have the limited intel with the Cybran T2 PD. The PD is much weaker and Cybran's PD unlisted advantage was a stealthy laser.

Everyone should stop bringing up fixing the laser as the people who patch the game have already decided that they didn't like the limited laser effect.

If someone reads this, please put a vote to the community on the splash vs your few opinions, then we can reference the pole in future discussions.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 11 Nov 2014, 22:30

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T21:56:44+02:00

Vee wrote:
Well, by that logic we should also give the GC and monkeylord a pulse laser?

The splash effect on the unit being hit is much larger that what was shown by the original Cybran T2 PD so you could see that your units are taking damage by something.

Original Cybran T2 PD Splash
Beam04.png

Colossus Splash
Beam01.png

Monkeylord Splash
Beam02.png

Statistics: Posted by The Mak — 11 Nov 2014, 21:56

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T21:11:11+02:00

Vee wrote:
Well, by that logic we should also give the GC and monkeylord a pulse laser?

A good question.

If the intel was the primary reason for the change, okay, but I remember a lot of discussion about how the Cerberus's DPS had been changed radically changed to compensate for its inability to hit moving targets. Given all of the other beam weapons that have the same intel problem that nothing has been done about (Sera Destroyer and PD, Battlecruiser, etc.) I have a hard time understanding why the Cerberus and Rhino would need a change based on that alone.

IceDreamer wrote:
may be resolved at some point ...

IceDreamer wrote:
... but not this patch.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 11 Nov 2014, 21:11

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T21:08:05+02:00

zeroAPM wrote:
IceDreamer wrote:The beam aim 'Fixes' are a workaround. Since I can't affect the way the engine actually aims (yet) I've done what I can on the opposite side of the coin. That is, making sure hitboxes and target bones are properly constructed and optimised for those units which give beam weapons the most trouble.

The problem with Cybran's T2 pulse beam weapons was twofold, with aim being the lesser problem and the intel bug mentioned by The Mak the greater. That, too, may be resolved at some point, but not this patch. Sheeo or Eximius, or someone else of that programming skill of course, will have to find a way of finding out the position where the aim beam intersects with fog of war, and then display only half the visual effect... or something. They told me a while back that it can be done, but not easily.

What about a dummy weapon (same as the current one) with FXs and no damage?

Won't work. This isn't an easy thing to fix 100% !

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 11 Nov 2014, 21:08

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T20:29:21+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
The beam aim 'Fixes' are a workaround. Since I can't affect the way the engine actually aims (yet) I've done what I can on the opposite side of the coin. That is, making sure hitboxes and target bones are properly constructed and optimised for those units which give beam weapons the most trouble.

The problem with Cybran's T2 pulse beam weapons was twofold, with aim being the lesser problem and the intel bug mentioned by The Mak the greater. That, too, may be resolved at some point, but not this patch. Sheeo or Eximius, or someone else of that programming skill of course, will have to find a way of finding out the position where the aim beam intersects with fog of war, and then display only half the visual effect... or something. They told me a while back that it can be done, but not easily.

What about a dummy weapon (same as the current one) with FXs and no damage?

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 11 Nov 2014, 20:29

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T17:43:00+02:00

Well, by that logic we should also give the GC and monkeylord a pulse laser?

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 11 Nov 2014, 17:43

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T17:34:27+02:00

The beam aim 'Fixes' are a workaround. Since I can't affect the way the engine actually aims (yet) I've done what I can on the opposite side of the coin. That is, making sure hitboxes and target bones are properly constructed and optimised for those units which give beam weapons the most trouble.

The problem with Cybran's T2 pulse beam weapons was twofold, with aim being the lesser problem and the intel bug mentioned by The Mak the greater. That, too, may be resolved at some point, but not this patch. Sheeo or Eximius, or someone else of that programming skill of course, will have to find a way of finding out the position where the aim beam intersects with fog of war, and then display only half the visual effect... or something. They told me a while back that it can be done, but not easily.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 11 Nov 2014, 17:34

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-11T04:56:33+02:00

I believe the targeting issue was one concern, but the main concern was that you could not see the effect hitting your units. Your units would take damage and you would not see the beam effects unless you had visual sight of the enemy's PD. Since the firing effect is a long continuous graphic effect that comes from a PD that you have no visual on, the game engine would not render it for you (it cannot do partial effects). This is why when you get line of sight from large units, like experimentals, they would pop into view once the visual range ring goes more than half way through the unit. You do not see partial parts of these units.

Since the new beam effect is more like rapid burst of smaller individual beams, the graphic effect can now be seen completely by all visual ranges and will appear to strike the target.

Statistics: Posted by The Mak — 11 Nov 2014, 04:56

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-10T21:00:15+02:00

Well, if it means anything, I'm planning on improving some weapon effects in V8 of my mod, including this one, since Nombringer has shown me how bad this effect really is in his feedback post.

Statistics: Posted by RK4000 — 10 Nov 2014, 21:00

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-10T20:44:23+02:00

Agreed, the original effects were awesome.

Statistics: Posted by gnatinator — 10 Nov 2014, 20:44

Re: Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-10T20:13:56+02:00

Mycen wrote:
Now that there is (apparently?) a fix to make beam weapons hit properly, I thought this might be a good time to revisit the effects for the Cerberus's and Rhino's laser weapons.

I remember that the current versions of these weapons were implemented because the game engine could not properly aim weapons that hit instantly. I am curious if anything that has been done so far which would change this situation. Alternatively, could the weapons be remade into beam weapons that use the original effects? The way they handled and looked was pretty close to continuous beam weapons already anyway.

Just something to think about, as the original effects were cool, and the current effects are.. not. If we can find a way to get them back at some point, that would be awesome.

well, I all so like original effect

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 10 Nov 2014, 20:13

Fixing Cybran T2 beam weapons

2014-11-10T20:00:37+02:00

Now that there is (apparently?) a fix to make beam weapons hit properly, I thought this might be a good time to revisit the effects for the Cerberus's and Rhino's laser weapons.

I remember that the current versions of these weapons were implemented because the game engine could not properly aim weapons that hit instantly. I am curious if anything that has been done so far which would change this situation. Alternatively, could the weapons be remade into beam weapons that use the original effects? The way they handled and looked was pretty close to continuous beam weapons already anyway.

Just something to think about, as the original effects were cool, and the current effects are.. not. If we can find a way to get them back at some point, that would be awesome.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 10 Nov 2014, 20:00