Forged Alliance Forever

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-25T22:27:59+02:00

Ok i make some change, some another testing, small tweak, and proper changelog.

still dont know hot add speed modifier on water (if know how to do it, pls give me a advice)

but i fix range bots!
and 0,5 aoe on gattling (dont "miss" now) and lower firing randomnes from granade 2.5->1.75 (no idea why it was 2,5, meduza have less range and firint randomnes 1,35 and miss a lot. miss on granade was insane) hoplite aoe 2 -> 2,2, range boots speed 3,6-> 3,3. from first (artifical) test it is locking fine.
also corect energy cost from -40e/s ->-45e/s (as every other t2 non hover units)

change energy cost on hover for 60->80e/s -> 90e/s (same as when you build T1 air, need plenty of energy farm for spam hover)
and 60e/s->80e/s ->-75e/s for wagner

on yenzee change hp 1500->1400
-------------------------

was try 5 hover units against 5 pillar and pillar won, against yenzee with 3 alive pillar, against blaze with 4 alive pillar (i dont micro it)
when you recognize that hover cost 2x more energy, and is not effective against pillar then it imho worth 25% more speed and hover ability.

Reasult from 2th testing is, that i recognise that range bots, after repair insine miss issue. are quite OP, buffed hover tanks have problem deal with them, when they dont miss so hard as before. So i take hp buff from range bot back, and slithli slow them for 0,1 more speed differences as before.

Try it, it is in mod vault: Hover_revork V4

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 25 Mar 2015, 22:27

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-25T17:41:31+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
for long range bot, that may be a good idea.

No it's not. Range bots are not used because they are unreliable and require a lot of micro - a single mistake and you lost bot

range bot are not fine, because miss so hard. at least mongoos is pointles. 0.3speed differences doesnt mather a lot. for repair your mistake. Speeed differences with hover is bigger as was before, so balance against hover is unchanged. When speed is a parth of surviability, what is, then would not be better take them slithli more hp? +100 on hoplite and 125 on mongoose? mongoos gatling accuracy is very hard fixable, maybe 0.5 aoe on gatling can help him to take dmg, even when miss

Apofenas wrote:
This is completely bullshit change. Yenzie practicly became Pillar with speed higher than mantis and hover ability. That means seraphim t2 army has best combat unit and secondary unit that is better than best units in uef and cybran armies.

in next version i change yenzee on 1500-> 1450 hp because on that speed lower range dont make real differences as on non hover units.

the energy cost is difference. make hover units cost nearly same energy as make air units. Is energy cost on air total pointles?
T2 non hover drain 45e/sec hover drain 80e/s air drain 90e/s. If it is not wnought it can cost more energy, for example as make air. Idea is let them pay for speed and hover advantage with energy cost, not for lower stats.
_______________
standard is make non hover units, have 2 units ratio and are cheaper. when have eco advantage, can make hover units that have 1.5 units ratio are faster, and more handle, but need have better eco for produce them. When have even more eco build Air, that is much faster as hover, but weaker as hover. For more specific ability on unit is paing more energy. Thats a idea realyty can be different:(
_____________

Pillar is better as yenzee, have more dmg, much less overkill and 5 more range, and is much easier spamable (because cost half energy, when have 4 factory for spam yenze, then it is as have 7factory spam pilars) But of yourse i can be wrong dont test it in real game.

riptide have 90->120dps. that is main difference not +300hp. its closer to titan as every others units. What you suggest for riptide that would bring him back from naval fight to land warfare?

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 25 Mar 2015, 17:41

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-25T02:32:00+02:00

keyser wrote:
for long range bot, that may be a good idea.

No it's not. Range bots are not used because they are unreliable and require a lot of micro - a single mistake and you lost bot. Atm if you made a mistake you could save some of them by running away and dodging, without speed they are lost completely. The current hover tank vs range bot balance is fine and doesn't need a lot of changes exept a couple of tweaks.

i've no idea about hover unit.

This is completely bullshit change. Yenzie practicly became Pillar with speed higher than mantis and hover ability. That means seraphim t2 army has best combat unit and secondary unit that is better than best units in uef and cybran armies.

The power cost adjust matters absolutely nothing and must not be taken into account unless it's something really high with 1500e cost difference, which is not a good thing.

I also have a feeling that riptide is still useless.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 25 Mar 2015, 02:32

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T23:58:34+02:00

keyser wrote:
why keep compairing it to sera bot ? we already told you sera bot is nearly T2.5 one.

because it have same price category. Obsidian is even same 2,5 units as sera bot
When it would cost as rhino then it can be compared with rhino. (and yes obsidian is better as rhino (edit - on 1v1 obsidian is faar better as rhino), he is even better as chicken - on close range)

my "new" obsidian is absoluthly same as was before only cost 360mass. This not change him function only satisfy my sense of perfectionism and clean wrong number that someone in deep past take -> because dont take shield upkeep on calculation. (similar as some units have total crap number as naval factory taht cost 32 572e or t2 turet 701 or sera tml that in reality have minimal range 7 and not 5)

that 30 mass differences dosnt mather a lot. what would most fix him role, and dont be vaporized in 3 piece with OC is integrate Dominost target priority mod. and i think that you would not have nothing against.

that help obsidian 200x more as corrected build cost.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Mar 2015, 23:58

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T23:50:29+02:00

Adjux send inferior number of t2 bots against superior number, take them on close range, he dont even try to micro them, how this can end?

I also watch one replay that was 2v2 on badlands or goodland, in north team was you or mozart or toxicDesert and on south was rumadai with someone.
one rusian on (top right side) make huge obsidian spam, about 30 units. rumadai have T2 shield 2xt2 pd and acu with gun. all obsidian die on OC, static shield stay alive.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Mar 2015, 23:50

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T23:34:54+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
Aulex wrote:There is a reason why opsidians are called opsidians

which one? Why is obsidian opsidian? What is so great on him that cheaper sera bot dont have?
all stats are calculated for price 360 mass, but in reality cost 390m

why have sera bot 2500 hp 120dps and have big range when opsidian have +10%hp -23% range -40% overkill on T1, +10%price
jast why?

why keep compairing it to sera bot ? we already told you sera bot is nearly T2.5 one. it's a special strong unit of sera.

compare your "new" obsidian to rhino, and see how un-balance this would make.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 24 Mar 2015, 23:34

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T22:59:21+02:00

http://content.faforever.com/faf/vault/ ... id=3224712

just for fun example

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 24 Mar 2015, 22:59

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T22:41:19+02:00

Aulex wrote:
There is a reason why opsidians are called opsidians

which one? Why is obsidian opsidian? What is so great on him that cheaper sera bot dont have?
all stats are calculated for price 360 mass, but in reality cost 390m

why have sera bot 2500 hp 120dps and have big range when opsidian have +10%hp -23% range -40% overkill on T1, +10%price
jast why?

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Mar 2015, 22:41

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T22:00:03+02:00

There is a reason why opsidians are called opsidians

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 24 Mar 2015, 22:00

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T19:46:00+02:00

lower price of obsidian is retard imo.
I don't know if the change about hover tank are good or not. (testing that, would help)
For mongoose and hoplite, i feel like your changes may be good ones.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 24 Mar 2015, 19:46

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T18:59:26+02:00

keyser wrote:
i've no idea avour hover unit.
for long range bot, that may be a good idea.
for obsidian this is absolut retard.

quite dont understand

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Mar 2015, 18:59

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T19:43:24+02:00

i've no idea about hover unit.
for long range bot, that may be a good idea.
for obsidian this is absolut retard.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 24 Mar 2015, 18:56

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T18:11:35+02:00

Ok i was making a mod with this stuff, here is a link if you are interesting how it can work, then here is it.

https://mega.co.nz/#!jwtmFJDb!PorIm7VIJ ... bjcDb91InQ

in mod has also chanelog, what i change is:

blaze/yenzee 200m 1760e 880bt speed 4,3->4
wagner 297m 2640e 1320bt
riptide360m 3200e 1600bt
obsidian333m(360) 1665e 1480bt

blaze 1200hp 50dps 23r 6 x 0,25=1,5
yenzee1500hp 50dps 18r 7,5x(0,25x0,8r) = 1,5
wagner1450hp 100dps 23r, 4,8x0,33=1,6 (torp 1every 15s 150dmg 10r.)
riptide 2000hp 120dps 18r5,5x(0,33x0,8)=1,44 120dps (2x13,5->18 every 0,3s) speed 3,7->3,4

hoplite speed 3,6->3,4 aoe 2->2,5 ,
mongoos speed 3,6->3,4 gatling muzzle 25->40

what dont do is change speed over and under water for 3 for hoover and 4 for wagner, (dont know how) so already are hover tanks too strong against navy -> if found solution change it (but much worse spamable, because cost plenty of E)

But found some weird think as.
- shield on obsidian, i chenge it for 37,5s but in reality it was about 20s, then i change it for 40s and in reality it was 32s. was not tested orginal 75s, but in nearly sure that it would not be 75s. no idea why, maybe need change also some other stuff not only recharge time
- mongoos, i add muzzle velocity 25->35 and it was still miss a lot, add it to 40 and it is total same, that units have some heavy problem with target bones. dont know how to fix it, imho IceDreamer would know something about it. but it is ridiculous. also granade spread in cca 5 aoe what is ridiculous big area, and against few units in move it doabout only 20%dps. no idea what to do with it.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Mar 2015, 18:11

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T18:02:24+02:00

ppl dont use air staging, because its ussles. plane have so many air so dont waste time (apm) for refuel them, is more easy build new for them as refuel that feaw plane that need gass. Cheap repair and oter this as nice, but it dont worth that apm for build it... sadly true. When would be less gas in plane not ridiculous number as 26,40 minute (!!!) then ppl would use it.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Mar 2015, 18:02

Re: hover staf buff

2015-03-24T02:38:31+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
here is about 2000pll play daily, that is credible sample. when most of then dont use them then they must have some reason for it.
I dont build blaze because know that pillar is about 2x more effective as blaze in fight. and because im wasting mass for every blaze that i build and dont build them for some very specific situation as raiding by few enemy T1 tanks in my back. Can cros watter, that is advantage, but not so big to have half unit ratio as non hover staff or yes? then why ppl dont build them? everyone are dump ? Or why ppl dont build chrono dumper ? or nano, or others stuff. must have some logical reason for it.

How often do you see air staging facility being built? It's super efficient unit and still gets build may be in late t3-t4 game. People prefere to build 4 t1 interceptors instead of building 1 airstaging facility and repair/refuel whole army for 5% cost. There are a lot of under used units in this game.

I got to 1500 ladder rating playing mostly aeon and 90% of my t2 tanks were blazes. Only things i dislike in them is their path finding, which makes microing difficult, and range less than aurora. If one of these things is changed, than a single blaze would be able to kill much more t1 tanks as long as it is microed. Even now i would still try to have 1 blaze per 5 obsidians in production.

People don't build them because their usage is limited by amount of water on map, importance of that water and enemy player building range bots. Instead people play more standard game and rely on t2 tanks.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 24 Mar 2015, 02:38