Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-22T20:11:56+02:00

I've changed my mind concerning this idea. I think increasing the buildtime will be an improvement.

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 22 Feb 2013, 20:11

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-21T23:07:18+02:00

I really against cybran's PD increasing build time.
Because of their game style. Cyb have nothing in late game but stealthed strats so only way play cybran is rushing. Like ML rush, t2 navy rush or make TeleMaser in 17 min.
(if you dont know: wheak t2, no hover debatable naval stealth and shield!!! Piece of trash!) Cybran is faction of supporting. With stealthes, rush and hit and run style.

And more about PDs. T1 is good like other but t2 is ridiculous and most useless and that's why:
In ~25% cases they CANT hit a single t1 unit (I saw with my own eyes a mantis which keeped move in single direction under fire and had no damage, rays just fly over) in 50%-60they cant hit it with 2 rays, only one, so, split DPS (that is less then t1 has) and only in last 25% cases their t2 pd can hit t1 units with 2 rays in every shot. BUT(!!!) only when they come to front. And not much better situation with t2 units.
I dont talk about micro, no. Units move in single direction and that damn rays fly over their heads or near and make no damage.
I can give you about 5 replays now (but if I ll find I can find 50)or make video with commentary, but there is to late here. I can give it for you tomorrow if you want.

P.S. Sera's PD is rail weapon, but they hit every time, but good micro and relief problems.

Statistics: Posted by Rediska — 21 Feb 2013, 23:07

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-20T07:13:26+02:00

Batmansrueckkehr wrote:
BT of pds are fine as they are. i think there is no need for a change.

Statistics: Posted by Supreme321 — 20 Feb 2013, 07:13

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-19T17:22:15+02:00

BT of pds are fine as they are. i think there is no need for a change.

Statistics: Posted by Batmansrueckkehr — 19 Feb 2013, 17:22

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-19T16:36:21+02:00

Gyle wrote:
Arkansas wrote: its essentially a gun upgrade with 50 extra dps you can get in 13 seconds.

Its not quite the same. Its a reward for teching up which you already payed for. Then you have to pay again for the pd. When you think for the price of of one triad you could build 13 lobos which could destroy said triad in less then two vollys.

Then again, I also think this is a viable standpoint as well. I'm perfectly content with the way things are as far as T2 PD, and I'm not a creeper or a spammer.

Statistics: Posted by InnocentInstinct — 19 Feb 2013, 16:36

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-19T16:35:04+02:00

I think closer to 20 seconds would be best.

Statistics: Posted by InnocentInstinct — 19 Feb 2013, 16:35

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-19T10:17:43+02:00

Gowerly wrote:
T2 PD has its cheeses.
Get a T2 ACU dropped in your base while you're out on the frontline and it can wreck you. This is increadibly easy to do in team games and then a single t2 PD can ruin your day.

I think, ACU and SCU rushes are good examples of why they are to be kept as is. This might be easily avoided, and brings fun and new diminsions to game. Anyway, for win you do T3 air.

Also there is no real way to make them hard to build by teched (T2, T3) comm or SCU and still having sane builditme for engies.
Not to mention, that early on you can actually counter anything comm may do only with your own comm, and later in the game you have alot of options for it.

Statistics: Posted by Sunny — 19 Feb 2013, 10:17

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-19T00:03:30+02:00

T2 PD has its cheeses.
Get a T2 ACU dropped in your base while you're out on the frontline and it can wreck you. This is increadibly easy to do in team games and then a single t2 PD can ruin your day.

That said, though, this is an edgecase and, outside of Aeon with it's hilarious splash, the PDs are pretty standardised.

Statistics: Posted by Gowerly — 19 Feb 2013, 00:03

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-18T23:53:25+02:00

They are ok.

Don't forget, that cost of 2 T2 PDs is also more than T2 mex cost. This makes PD creep a full commitment strategy in competitive games.

Btw, 10+ lobos, being 360+ mass, are going to kill 2 T2 PD with attack-move. T1 armies totally overrun them.

They are good for map control as they hit things pretty reliably in their range and might be used to deny reclaim, this is sort of by design.

They currently are sometimes built for siege and for base defence (as a desperate measure, inside facs).
Both scenarios seem to be very interesting in terms of gameplay and, IMO, should stay in game.

Statistics: Posted by Sunny — 18 Feb 2013, 23:53

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-17T01:03:48+02:00

The comparison to a gun upgrade is ridiculous. 1. You already have to have t2 2. Your ACU can't fire or move while building a pd 3. t2 pd absolutely suck against t1 spam unless also supported by shields and units or t1 pd 4. Pd can't move... As things stand the t2 point defense fits perfectly in the defensive role and has so many weaknesses and counters that another nerf would render it useless.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 17 Feb 2013, 01:03

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-16T14:32:04+02:00

Arkansas wrote:
its essentially a gun upgrade with 50 extra dps you can get in 13 seconds.

Its not quite the same. Its a reward for teching up which you already payed for. Then you have to pay again for the pd. When you think for the price of of one triad you could build 13 lobos which could destroy said triad in less then two vollys.

Statistics: Posted by Gyle — 16 Feb 2013, 14:32

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-16T14:06:10+02:00

i dont think this change is necessary right now

Statistics: Posted by Kryo — 16 Feb 2013, 14:06

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-16T14:04:10+02:00

What gets me is not so much that its used offensively but that it often used in preference to running away, its essentially a gun upgrade with 50 extra dps you can get in 13 seconds. This takes thought out of defences, these should be used in places you really want to defend long term not as an as and when stopgap for when your acu is a bit exposed. It makes no sense that an acu should be building rather than shooting when being attacked.

Statistics: Posted by Arkansas — 16 Feb 2013, 14:04

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-16T03:30:42+02:00

uberge3k wrote:
T2 PD is not cost effective. Not even close. There are innumerable ways to counter it, all of which are incredibly cost effective.

It is also never used offensively. It cannot be, as it cannot move. The other player has to intentionally suicide their units into your PD.

If you (the general "you") are playing a game, and are limited by build power instead of mass, and able to use T2 PDs "offensively", and this is actually working, then frankly, you are not playing at anywhere approaching a high level and a better player would effortlessly crush you.

T2 PD is certainly used offensively in higher level games. Especially in a matchup like cy vs aeon on maps with contested chokes. That being said, there ARE many ways to counter it and I think the current balance is fine.

Statistics: Posted by JeeVeS — 16 Feb 2013, 03:30

Re: Increase the build time of t2 pd.

2013-02-16T01:27:49+02:00

T2 PD is not cost effective. Not even close. There are innumerable ways to counter it, all of which are incredibly cost effective.

It is also never used offensively. It cannot be, as it cannot move. The other player has to intentionally suicide their units into your PD.

If you (the general "you") are playing a game, and are limited by build power instead of mass, and able to use T2 PDs "offensively", and this is actually working, then frankly, you are not playing at anywhere approaching a high level and a better player would effortlessly crush you.

Statistics: Posted by uberge3k — 16 Feb 2013, 01:27