Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Sorian AI complains about map markers

2017-05-09T03:09:28+02:00

better late than never! =D
After a long break (University is a time thieving bitch!) I think I found some more time again.

Thanks a lot for your efforts ! I'm sure this will help me learn and understand ^_^

Some of the changes you made sort of destroy the intended meta for this map but the Ai would probably not understand this anyway so if it helps the Ai I might find a compromise for future versions.
-- flattening the map ultimately changes the meaning of navy on this map. most cruisers and battle ships are now able to reach all areas of the map. The original idea was to limit Firing access to around 50~70% of the landmass but no more. I fear this will lead to naval dominance which was not intended.
though I liked the big heights of the small islands in the center they were indeed buggy and even for air hard to navigate lol ( intis crashing into the mountains kinda made me chuckle once or twice - but that was not intended,
In that regard would lowering the sea level and the land levels in general make a change for air planes? So the height difference remains but Air is less hindered?

the intended meta:
Basically on a 4 v 4 scheme I wanted the mids to clash on each other early with suport from the other positions. should one side win the mid player has to refocus as theres no land access to the other positions, the mid could either turtle up +arty or switch to navy / air.
navy sides could support the center of the island but would not dominate mid as it is seen frequently in setons.
Air on the other hand has full access but should also be busy trying to fortify their volcanoes and fending of navy raids.
generally This is setons but you aren't fucked just cause one of your team mates messed up right away. early victories still snowball ofc but not as hard as they would on setons.

the distance between each island and base covered t2 arty range and the height offered great cover so those islands were very important strategical assets to control.
Now they are worth one mex. I'm not sure whether I will be satisfied with that particular change.

Statistics: Posted by andybe — 09 May 2017, 03:09

Re: Sorian AI complains about map markers

2015-05-17T01:03:24+02:00

@andybe ....You were unlucky m8 ...fixed-it-for-ya
I notice that 24 games have been played on your map yet there are no recordings in the Vault.
All your FA movement markers - Land, Naval, Air and Amphibious were bugged and glitched.
That is why FAF was reporting 'No Markers'. I deleted them all and created new sets to get them to save correctly.
All FA Markers are now in place and working perfectly.
I also added about 12 water entry points to prevent the AI milling because it could not find a suitable path.
All landform was lowered so that planes fly without having to avoid cliffs.
The map is much smoother and runs very fast.
It can be played in ranked play, as it has balanced reclaim and resources ...and there are no restrictions.
Your map is a beauty ...keep up the good work andybe
What I have done is a rough cut without decals. If you want a truly impressive look you could add 1000 decals. lol
Thanks for your imagination ...we get a bit stale around here with map ideas.

I have never seen that marker save problem before ...very strange.

Edit: Map 'EpicBattle TeamPlay_AI' is now in Vault

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 17 May 2015, 01:03

Re: Sorian AI complains about map markers

2015-05-12T17:45:11+02:00

@DeimosEvotec ....Thanks for the recommendation.
@andybe ....I will tell you what I know and have experienced with Island markers. I rarely use Island markers on my maps.
This marker tells the AI to build an expansion on the Island, so it is not unusual for the AI to build a land plant. You will find that the AI wont necessarily build a plant on all islands that have Island markers.
There are some other over-riding factors for example:
- the AI will always build a base where there is a AI start position.
- the AI's next priority will be to build on a Large Expansion Point marker.
- the AI will not exceed the number of land expansions allowed in the AI setup options.(default = 5)
- if the teams are two AIs and two Humans then each AI will both 1st attempt to build on the 4 vacant start positions. If they both manage to build a plant at those positions there is only 1 other expansion allowed by default.
More than two AI on a 20x20 naval map will cause sim lagg.
Start positions 3 and 4 on the middle isle are very poor for the AIs, compared to positions 1 and 2.
Your Naval Rally Point markers are not close enough to where shipyards are built for the AI to use them.
The eight small isles with 2 mex each are a problem because they can only be accessed by transports. You will find many engineers stuck at the base of the cliffs unable to get to these mex. I counted 15 unused mex in one test game and 18 in another.
You need to link markers of the same type to help the AI with path-finding. The most important links are between the Amphibious markers.
To solve the engineer problem that you mention you could create a cliff or trench underwater to stop access for Ex and Percys/Cans then allow access to water by lowering the land at the shoreline to allow hover to pass.
All start positions have no Land Rally Point markers(red) close enough for the AI to use.
You have too many Land and Naval Defense Point markers ...this will confuse the AI and just wreck its economy.
You have a misalignment between mex markers and the grid causing a visual error.

The bottom right corner Isle has amphibious access, the other three corners do not. Also there are 2 mex on bottom right isle and only 1 on the others. The AI will not build a plant on the top left or bottom right isles unless you place an Amphibious marker and an Expansion Point marker. The AIs starting in positions 1 and 2 will attempt to build the mex on the corner isles (bottom left and top right respectively) because they are so close to the start positions, even though there are no Amphibious markers on these isles.
Some landform smoothing will help the AI path-finding and improve the close-up look of the map.

I could go on detailing other marker errors but this is long winded enough. I enjoy placing marker not writing about them. Rather than endlessly talking about it, I would prefer to fix the map and place a new set of FA markers. I think you will learn faster by practical example.

Statistics: Posted by AwarE — 12 May 2015, 17:45

Re: Sorian AI complains about map markers

2015-04-20T01:01:49+02:00

I would recommend talking to AwarE about improving AI Markers. He does all the AI Co-Op Teamplay maps.

Statistics: Posted by DeimosEvotec — 20 Apr 2015, 01:01

Re: Sorian AI complains about map markers

2015-04-19T19:45:51+02:00

well... adding the FA markers did solve that problem but now a new problem arose lol...

even if i mark the islands as islands the Ai will still attempt to build on them by land.. so the engis get stuck >_> earlier they actually used transports... what is wrong there?

Statistics: Posted by andybe — 19 Apr 2015, 19:45

Re: Sorian AI complains about map markers

2015-04-19T12:30:42+02:00

oh right...
http://www.megafileupload.com/1Ndu/epic ... .v1006.rar

edit:

i think this is the problem...
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Expanded_M ... or_Mapping

will try now ^^

Statistics: Posted by andybe — 19 Apr 2015, 12:30

Re: Sorian AI complains about map markers

2015-04-19T10:25:29+02:00

I dont think anyone will tell you what you did wrong without seeing that map, give us some link to it

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 19 Apr 2015, 10:25

Sorian AI complains about map markers

2015-04-19T03:22:07+02:00

So i put map markers all over the map, quite a few of them actually...

but Sorian AI still complains at the start of every game while on the other hand it does indeed use the map markers ... kind of paradox.

does anyone have any idea why it does that?

Statistics: Posted by andybe — 19 Apr 2015, 03:22