Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Air Leverage - Improving Air Gameplay (Mod v6 out now!)

2016-01-05T15:23:26+02:00

So I tried the t1 transport stealth today.

Played pretty poorly due to rustiness but the stealth was interesting to see.

Basically it works great but is hard to mount a t2 sneak attack with more than 2 - 3 transports due to the e cost.

Early signs are positive peeps!

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 05 Jan 2016, 15:23

Re: Air Leverage - Improving Air Gameplay (Mod v6 out now!)

2015-12-27T08:52:27+02:00

Very playable now that T2 transports are not on overdrive. I'm not sure I'll be able to get the Seton's squad to try it but hopefully some teamgamers or the balance team give it a shot.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 27 Dec 2015, 08:52

Re: Air Leverage - Improving Air Gameplay (Mod v6 out now!)

2015-12-27T06:31:03+02:00

Ok fair bump but for a reason.

Lots of good discussions with people regarding v6 and some iterative changes have resulted.

A huge thanks to Ithilis_Quo who's helped me with some of my issues getting different code working - many thanks for your help and patience!

Here's the changelog (also in first page)

Air Leverage v6 Changelog:

v6 vs v5 changes summary:
- death weapons cybran/aeon t2 transport added
- T2/3 transport death values increased
- reduce static flak range on t2 in line with old values
- t1 stealth transport ability added
- -1 t2 transport speeds back to stock 15 values

T1 Changes:

- T1 transports have a toggle stealth ability with a large (race specific) energy drain ~4-500 in size. Can be activated from t1 but needs eco to support it. Useful for late game small drops/expansions
- Stealth E costs:
- 400 cybran
- 450 UEF
- 475 sera
- 500 aeon

T2 Changes:

**FighterBombers**
UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Max Air Speed -> 15 to 17
UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Min Air Speed -> 10 to 12
Aeon Swiftwing Air Speed -> 18 to 17
Aeon Swiftwing TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 2
UEF t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.25
UEF t2 FBomber Bomb FiringRandomness -> 0.1 to 0
Sera t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.1
Sera t2 FBomber death damage -> 200 (from 25 - standardised vs other races)
Cybran t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1

**Ground AA**
Stationary t2 aa Built time reduced to 75%,
Aeon Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 30 to 34. 2 projectiles instead of 1 (it's dps was ~1/2 of all other races), Range 50
UEF Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32. Range 46
Cybran Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 20 to 28. Range 44
Seraphim Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32. Range 48

T2 MAA -> Flak AoE all races -1 (4 -> 3)
T2 MAA -> x2 energy cost (800 -> 1600)

**T2/3 Transports**
T2 Aeon transport -> range 26 AA, 6 -> 15dmg per gun (the best AA transport)
T2 Seraphim transport -> range 28, no AA dmg buff, reworked anti-ground autocannon into a 1xAoE slow firing long range cannon (the best long-range seige transport, most transport slots)
T2 Cybran transport -> range 24, 25% AA dmg buff, x4 dmg emp gun (emp, weakest anti-ground dmg, adequate AA, fewest transport slots)
T2 UEF Transport -> range 24, x3 anti-ground dps (solid all round dps, best HP)
T2 Transport crash - 250dmg all races
T3 UEF Transport crash - 500dmg
T2/3 Transport HP -> +60% HP
T2/3 Transport Cost -> x2 Mass and Energy, +60% build timer

T3 Changes:

**Ground AA**
T3MAA -> 1/2 build timer, +.2 speed, 640 mass (from 800) (T3MAA are not in a useful place. For similar cost to a SAM you get <1/3 of the HP, 54 vs 60 range, slower build - eg. no reason to buy especially when t2 flak

is so good. With this change T3MAA still aren't cost effective but you can produce them in 2.5 time the rate of t2 flak for x4 the cost. They're still not a really great unit but they're certainly better than before)
T3 SAMs -> all HP's rebalanced to x2 the HP of their static flak (sams are x2 the cost but had more dps, range and much more HP for cost. Hence nerf to base HP)

**ASF's**
T3 ASF Cost -> +150 Mass (350 -> 500)
T3 ASF Cost -> +50% build timer (3000 -> 4500)
T3 ASF Speed -> -2 (25 -> 23)
T3 ASF Fuel Timer -> now identical to T2 FB timer
T3 Scout Cost -> x2 energy (7500 -> 15000)
T3 Scout Cost -> 3000 build timer (900 -> 3000)

**Intel**
Reduce t3 radar range by -200 (600 -> 400)
Reduce t3 omni range by 80 (200 -> 120)

T4 Changes:

Experimental Build Timer Changes:
Monkeylord -> x2 build timer
Soulripper -> x1.5 build timer
Megalith -> x2.1 build timer
Fatboy -> x1.8 build timer
Galatic Colossus -> x1.8 build timer
Ythotha -> x1.9 build timer
Tempest -> x1.5 build timer
Atlantis -> x1.5 build timer

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 27 Dec 2015, 06:31

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-10-22T12:28:31+02:00

haha cheeky indeed Tremarl - I'd be interested to see a replay of that working.

Still I'm innocent of that balancing sin - undoubtedly guilty of others and am waiting for people to start talking about those sins here after they try v5

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 22 Oct 2015, 12:28

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-10-22T12:25:07+02:00

yeager wrote:
I don't think people are complaining about the asf armor vs exp bomber change, just the extra long reload time and double vet. I personally think it was fine, but if you gonna nerf it's rof and vet give it more base hp and regen to compensate, that way it's not OP for pros, and not UP for average joes

It is actually the biggest bullshit of a change, since now your T4 scout who finally manages to let off 1 bomb at enemy air production that is unshielded and thus it will wipe it all.... gets cock blocked by enemy asf who purposefully take the hit so as to keep production alive.

None of the asf, die, proceed for your ahwassa to get raped, and then for all those asf to heal at stage facilities.

Really it was such a lazy change by the balance team... if they really wanted to stop bombs on asf, then just change feking flying height...

Statistics: Posted by Tremarl — 22 Oct 2015, 12:25

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-10-20T18:11:09+02:00

While they don't have the speed of the ASF they do make a pretty good picket defense, and can help clear the skies. ASFs still rule but they dont keep everything else out of the sky now with the mod. You can cleary see on the larger maps there is more going on. I would suggest the reason the air play is so poor is that most players aren't used to the new dynamic that is established, including myself, though my eco was shit because I dont play Selkie often at all and I was busy trying to do too many things not well, even though the changes are subtle enough as to not be immediately recognized.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 20 Oct 2015, 18:11

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-10-20T16:48:55+02:00

Thx for posting!

It's interesting to see how varied the late game air combat was in that game - t2 & t3 gunships, t2 torp bombers, t2 fb's, t3 strats, asf, t1 ints, t2 transports (you looove those crappy t1's in t3 i see ).

What's telling is how critical limiting ASF numbers is on t3 gameplay - especially early t3 where the slower ramping up of ASF numbers really opens up the air meta. Later on we see a more traditional ASF swarm - but I think that's ok and just representative of a true t2 -> t3 transition

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 20 Oct 2015, 16:48

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-10-20T04:33:37+02:00

Here is a Replay for you Korbah...

Transports were pretty successful, T1 air which I used to pull them into battle was reasonably successful, T2 air is still getting the beat down by T3 but ASFs are much less swarmy. PPl kept fucking hounding me for the changes so that was annoying and I dint do all that well but there was plenty of action and kills on both sides. Selkie island which is a good water map without a gap, mid island got taken early and held all though the opposition but a concerted effort to take it via transport was never really made.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 20 Oct 2015, 04:33

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-10-17T19:01:11+02:00

So I have uploaded v5 for everyone to use and played a few fun games.

One problem with not playing FAF for 2 months is that I'm rusty as hell Still was fun to be playing again

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 17 Oct 2015, 19:01

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-10-17T08:16:46+02:00

I've been working on v5 of Air Leverage now that my exam is over. Here's the WiP Changelog - new changes in Bold

All feedback welcome - still haven't finalised v5

Here's the key changes and explanation:

T2 Transports:
- 17 speed is too fast against interceptors but 16 may just be right. The other movement values have been returned to stock - there was a modest improvement in efficiency in drops but it causes visual glitches. The key reason for drop delays is due to pathing calculations so I'll accept the stock values.
- Given the speed nerf from 17 to 16 I wanted to keep the high cost but justify it by broadening their role as a drop support unit by increasing their completely useless dmg to something useful but still modest.
- With the current changes T2 transports are a definite threat that's counterable by t1 interceptors and ground AA. However, T2 transports have enough dmg kick to justify their high investment cost and requires appropriate measures to defend.
- After extensive sandboxing these units now feel racially distinct and ready for player testing. They're now a unit with impact that's counterable if taken seriously.

T3 SAMs/T3MAA:
- SAMs simply have far too much HP for their cost. I know it's due to T4 experimentals but I'm going to deal with that later once T2/3 is working well. SAMs now have a fair HP value for their cost. Dmg unchanged
- T3MAA completely underperformed for cost. More expensive than a SAM and completely inferior except for their ability to move (which they do so slowly). Build timer, cost and speed all improved for a modest improvement to the unit. It's still not a star performer but it'll be less dreadful and possibly worth building....may need more love

T2 FB's:
- Notha's death dmg is now fixed, 200 like the others
- Janus firing randomness removed to make it slightly more accurate

T2 Aeon Flak:
- It seems it was doing 1/2 the dmg of the other flaks as it only shot one projectile. Fires 2 now.

v5 Changelog:
UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Max Air Speed -> 15 to 17
UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Min Air Speed -> 10 to 12
Aeon Swiftwing Air Speed -> 18 to 17
Aeon Swiftwing TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 2
UEF t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.25
UEF t2 FBomber Bomb FiringRandomness -> 0.1 to 0
Sera t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.1
Sera t2 FBomber death damage -> 200 (from 25 - standardised vs other races)
Cybran t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1
Stationary t2 aa Built time reduced to 75%. Range standardised to 50.
Aeon Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 30 to 34. 2 projectiles instead of 1 (it's dps was ~1/2 of all other races)
UEF Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32
Cybran Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 20 to 28
Seraphim Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32
T3 SAMs -> all HP's rebalanced to x2 the HP of their static flak (sams are x2 the cost but had more dps, range and much more HP for cost. Hence nerf to base HP)
T2/3 Transport Speed -> 15 to 16
T2 Aeon transport -> range 26 AA, 6 -> 15dmg per gun (the best AA transport)
T2 Seraphim transport -> range 28, no AA dmg buff, reworked anti-ground autocannon into a 1xAoE slow firing long range cannon (the best long-range seige transport, most transport slots)
T2 Cybran transport -> range 24, 25% AA dmg buff, x4 dmg emp gun (emp, weakest anti-ground dmg, adequate AA, fewest transport slots)
T2 UEF Transport -> range 24, x3 anti-ground dps (solid all round dps, best HP)
T3MAA -> 1/2 build timer, +.2 speed, 640 mass (from 800) (T3MAA are not in a useful place. For similar cost to a SAM you get <1/3 of the HP, 54 vs 60 range, slower build - eg. no reason to buy especially when t2 flak is so good. With this change T3MAA still aren't cost effective but you can produce them in 2.5 time the rate of t2 flak for x4 the cost. They're still not a really great unit but they're certainly better than before)
T2/3 Transport HP -> +60% HP
T2/3 Transport Cost -> x2 Mass and Energy, +60% build timer
T3 ASF Cost -> +150 Mass (350 -> 500)
T3 ASF Cost -> +50% build timer (3000 -> 4500)
T3 ASF Speed -> -2 (25 -> 23)
T3 ASF Fuel Timer -> now identical to T2 FB timer
T3 Scout Cost -> x2 energy (7500 -> 15000)
T3 Scout Cost -> 3000 build timer (900 -> 3000)
T2 MAA -> Flak AoE all races -1 (4 -> 3)
T2 MAA -> x2 energy cost (800 -> 1600)
Reduce t3 radar range by -200 (600 -> 400)
Reduce t3 omni range by 80 (200 -> 120)

Experimental Build Timer Changes:
Monkeylord -> x2 build timer
Soulripper -> x1.5 build timer
Megalith -> x2.1 build timer
Fatboy -> x1.8 build timer
Galatic Colossus -> x1.8 build timer
Ythotha -> x1.9 build timer
Tempest -> x1.5 build timer
Atlantis -> x1.5 build timer

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 17 Oct 2015, 08:16

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-09-05T11:01:26+02:00

another isis 2v2. Fun ending.

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 05 Sep 2015, 11:01

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-08-31T04:08:06+02:00

Isis 2v2. I stuffed up the player position so weird game

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 31 Aug 2015, 04:08

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-08-31T01:44:08+02:00

Wonder 700+ game. Nothing amazing to see.

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 31 Aug 2015, 01:44

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-08-27T15:39:49+02:00

So moving back to topic.

Anyone had a chance to get some air leverage games? Any reps to post?

Statistics: Posted by Korbah — 27 Aug 2015, 15:39

Re: Air Leverage - A constructive moderated discussion

2015-08-25T21:58:35+02:00

I don't think people are complaining about the asf armor vs exp bomber change, just the extra long reload time and double vet. I personally think it was fine, but if you gonna nerf it's rof and vet give it more base hp and regen to compensate, that way it's not OP for pros, and not UP for average joes

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 25 Aug 2015, 21:58