Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-22T14:47:02+02:00

ZeRen wrote:
ok, but I would define OP as a tactic that is used very often, so is beetle snipe used often? no, you will almost not see it (maybe only from Tokyto, me and few others), just wanna to say this , wont bother to defend it again...

It happens in teamgames all the time.

I'd say beetle snipe is the snipe that is carried out in team games at the t2 stage most often, with success rate of more than 50%.

I feel (successful) snipes at the t2 stage happen in this order in team games, relating to their frequency:

beetle snipes
t2 bomber snipes
tml snipes
mercy snipes

That is just my impression from playing team games online at ~800-1400 rating.

From my point of view this would be OP after your definition, which I don't share btw. I believe it is more complex to say what is OP then to say "it is used very often".

The thing with beetle snipes is just that you often feel cheated when it happens to you. Even if you have scouted the enemy team building beetles, it is hard to deny the snipe if it is properly executed with the help of the whole team.

I also feel it is kind of strange that the deceiver field is still working while loaded up on transports, while mobile shields won't. This doesn't make sense to me.

Statistics: Posted by JMorten — 22 Aug 2016, 14:47

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-20T19:15:35+02:00

angus000 wrote:
ZeRen wrote:and why not make 8 beetles to do same dmg to com as 4 beetles now(before patch) , it will nerf them agains ACU, but still be more usefful against buildings

3 beetles and deceiver in T2 trasport dont worth the micro you need to use to avoid fighters, static AA

Because you need them to make 3000 dmg each to destroy t2 buildings. So having them make half that damage renders them a lot less useful against buldings as well.

Bettle drop snipe was nerfed because it was considered to be OP, so instead of outright removing it, they decided to make it a little more challenging to execute.

ok, but I would define OP as a tactic that is used very often, so is beetle snipe used often? no, you will almost not see it (maybe only from Tokyto, me and few others), just wanna to say this , wont bother to defend it again...

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 20 Aug 2016, 19:15

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T21:54:09+02:00

ZeRen wrote:
and why not make 8 beetles to do same dmg to com as 4 beetles now(before patch) , it will nerf them agains ACU, but still be more usefful against buildings

3 beetles and deceiver in T2 trasport dont worth the micro you need to use to avoid fighters, static AA

Because you need them to make 3000 dmg each to destroy t2 buildings. So having them make half that damage renders them a lot less useful against buldings as well.

Bettle drop snipe was nerfed because it was considered to be OP, so instead of outright removing it, they decided to make it a little more challenging to execute.

Statistics: Posted by angus000 — 19 Aug 2016, 21:54

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T20:14:49+02:00

and why not make 8 beetles to do same dmg to com as 4 beetles now(before patch) , it will nerf them agains ACU, but still be more usefful against buildings

3 beetles and deceiver in T2 trasport dont worth the micro you need to use to avoid fighters, static AA

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 19 Aug 2016, 20:14

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T20:05:21+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
I'd rather see an explanation for a T2 unit taking up only a single transport slot that isn't "But moooom, it's always been that way!"...

Beetle are of size of t1 arti. So thats why they should take 1 slot: they are just small units.

Besides they are on-time use units. I feel like dropping 4 (deciever and t1 transport) is feasable usage of my time -> 4 (usually less) dead mexes. Dropiing 2 is meeeh. I would rather drop brick with stealth .....

Statistics: Posted by Bittered — 19 Aug 2016, 20:05

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T19:29:53+02:00

Rather nerf the firebeetle by making it take up two slots in a transport, make it do less damage to an ACU just how an OC does only 500 dmg verse 10,000 to exps and other attack units.

This way, it could change roles to a unit that is used to attack key structures like upgraded mexes or power generators via drop.

Problem solved.

that's an absolute no from my part.
you are nerfing the unit overall, when we only need to nerf the drop-beetle combo.
i've been using beetle "a lot" without drop on OP, and i don't want this to be removed.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 19 Aug 2016, 19:29

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T18:28:57+02:00

Or: you just pay attention to prevent a beetle snipe, like you pay attention to prevent a TML snipe, mercy snipe etc.

The reason why ACUs do 500 damage in OC to other ACUs is because you often have ACU battles. If it were to OC an ACU with 12K damage, then it's a lottery on who gets the kill, if it's not a mutual KO.

That's different from units which are designed to make a quick kill against any sort of thing, ACUs included. We should not reduce the beetle damage to 1K against ACUs, mercy damage to 800 against ACUs and TML damage to 1200 against ACUs just to make people feel slightly better against snipes.

I'd agree with the slower acceleration out of a transport though.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 19 Aug 2016, 18:28

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T18:21:41+02:00

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/1405
I think beetles taking 2 slots in a transport plus the change above is a better solution than making firebeetles completely ineffective against acus.

The PR above stops units from accelerating out of transports so beetles no longer jump very fast out of the transport when they have an attack order. This allowed beetles to get to the acu very quickly after dropping and they split immediately when dropped which made OCing multiple at once impossible in most cases.

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 19 Aug 2016, 18:21

Re: Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T18:15:27+02:00

I'd rather see an explanation for a T2 unit taking up only a single transport slot that isn't "But moooom, it's always been that way!"...

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 19 Aug 2016, 18:15

Firebeetle Proposal: Less dmg to ACU like OC

2016-08-19T18:02:07+02:00

Rather nerf the firebeetle by making it take up two slots in a transport, make it do less damage to an ACU just how an OC does only 500 dmg verse 10,000 to exps and other attack units.

This way, it could change roles to a unit that is used to attack key structures like upgraded mexes or power generators via drop.

Problem solved.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 19 Aug 2016, 18:02