Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-27T01:19:49+02:00

Go ahead and release the patch. After reading and talking with a few people about why they stopped playing it doesn't seem to be the contributing factor.

Hopefully visionik and Sheeo read this and see the need to make a drastic change to boost the player base. I suggest you get enough people to help with the server code whether it's community members or outside help. I would put money in to help if a viable plan came up.

I'm out for now unless it gets taken seriously.

Enjoy what is left of FAF, guys.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 27 Aug 2016, 01:19

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-27T00:51:33+02:00

Morax and Linch,

I think you missed the point... Yes a player should be protected from air if they have flak in their army. But if that army consists of high speed units such as hoplites, then it is a raiding force and not a frontline army per se. It is one of those aforementioned lone vulnerable packs.

Sure, you can protect your Hoplites with Bangers, but naturally one should expect that should those Hoplites need to kite the enemy ground force that they will be leaving their Bangers behind. This is a natural game mechanic which has always existed - and that speed differential between units is an important consideration when deciding on force composition.

The reason why increasing the speed of AA is generally a bad idea is because air combat is reliant on speed - and when you increase mobile AA speed you are essentially nerfing the primary advantage which air units have.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 27 Aug 2016, 00:51

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-26T15:46:08+02:00

I'd have to agree with Morax here. Stingers are no good for taking out armies BUT they will excel at taking out lone mexes, T1/T2 PD, T1 AA, pgens that are not covered with a shield or flak and/or commanders that were dumb enough to not carry mobile flak with them at T2 air stage. One does not use T2 gunships to take out armies (unless they are Cybran and have AoE), one has T1/T2 fighter/bombers and should have a land army himself.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 26 Aug 2016, 15:46

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-26T14:23:56+02:00

No, I don't think using ranged attack units should be "punishable by air" if you have flak. Even if the flak is a bit out of position it's a matter of maybe five seconds before you get to that flak, and with poor dps of gunships you won't do enough damage to take a out a large army.

If you are using gunships to fight massive armies you are doing it wrong. In this game you really should be using gunships to snipe undefended eco and lone, vulnerable packs.

Watch games of MrMackey where he rushes gunships with air control. He doesn't ever engage the main army as it's just foolish to think gunships will kill it off before flak arrive.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 26 Aug 2016, 14:23

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-26T03:55:59+02:00

Morax wrote:
Apofenas wrote:Banger: Yes, i see every other flak now has same speed as unit it should support. Even though Rhino is main cybran t2 unit most of the time, the Hoplite and Wagner are still very good options. Flak is more important to them as they are much more vulnerable to air units.

THIS.

Can't tell you how much I love packs of stealth hoplites.... I was really mad you decided to base the speed of the t2 flak on the slowest t2 ground unit when it should match the fastest and keep up with all of them. I feel micro-managing armies to ensure flak is with them will be VERY annoying.

No I disagree. Being vulnerable to air is the price you pay for engaging in T2 mobility ground combat. Increasing the speed of AA has a drastic impact on the viability air power. Because, it means that flak can quickly be deployed to anywhere that it is required and significantly reduces the time window within which the air units can inflict damage. If a land player lacked the foresight to move the AA into position don't you think that the air player should be able to punish them?

The price one must pay for kiting and raiding with the maximum speed and range of T2 ranged bots is that one must leave all of the supporting units behind within the heavy formation. Or otherwise have them caught out by enemy ground units during the pursuit. So by necessity units must be vulnerable to air in a kite - and IMO gunships ought to be the natural counter to ranged bots. The speed of T2 Flak is exactly what it ought to be.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 26 Aug 2016, 03:55

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-26T03:14:58+02:00

Kalvirox wrote:
Morax. Are you drag racing your armies? If you are talking about using hoplites with flak and that the flak will get left behind.. yes it will as you rally your units to the front. But hopefully your hoplite micro will be good enough such that you retreat when the enemy comes close. In which case the flak will be able to catch up easily. Unless you are able to push large distances it shouldn't be too much of a problem. That's what I find at the moment when I use flak, as I rally it across the map they all bunch up at the back of the army and all get to the battle at the same. time.

Microing single flak to be near 10 Rhinos is much easier than microing 10 Hoplites to be near single flak.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 26 Aug 2016, 03:14

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T21:32:21+02:00

Kalvirox wrote:
Morax. Are you drag racing your armies?

80-100 apm says yes

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 25 Aug 2016, 21:32

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T20:53:48+02:00

Shroomy wrote:
biass wrote:To those complaining about beetles:
Have you yet considered that having to shoot down 2 transports in the space of a few seconds is harder then shooting down only one?

They are harder to shoot. But their landing pathfinding is soooo bad. I played beta and tried beetle snipes with beetles split across t1 transports. I ordered them to land next to ACU in base. They spread across and all landed outside of the base ...

Dunno if you beetle snipe, but in most cases multiple readjustments of landing points are needed. Group of transports just fails in that, and I am a single-core entity and cant continually micro each of them simultaniously.

You need ACU to stand still in the middle of nowhere to pull off multi-transport beetle snipe. Gl with that.

Just give them 2 individual landing orders, it's not that hard...

However, if t2 mexes are gonna have an hp nerf in the part 2 of the patch, then maybe bettles could use a dmg nerf instead of changing how much space they take in transports.

Statistics: Posted by angus000 — 25 Aug 2016, 20:53

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T20:22:18+02:00

biass wrote:
To those complaining about beetles:
Have you yet considered that having to shoot down 2 transports in the space of a few seconds is harder then shooting down only one?

They are harder to shoot. But their landing pathfinding is soooo bad. I played beta and tried beetle snipes with beetles split across t1 transports. I ordered them to land next to ACU in base. They spread across and all landed outside of the base ...

Dunno if you beetle snipe, but in most cases multiple readjustments of landing points are needed. Group of transports just fails in that, and I am a single-core entity and cant continually micro each of them simultaniously.

You need ACU to stand still in the middle of nowhere to pull off multi-transport beetle snipe. Gl with that.

Statistics: Posted by Bittered — 25 Aug 2016, 20:22

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T19:38:13+02:00

Morax. Are you drag racing your armies? If you are talking about using hoplites with flak and that the flak will get left behind.. yes it will as you rally your units to the front. But hopefully your hoplite micro will be good enough such that you retreat when the enemy comes close. In which case the flak will be able to catch up easily. Unless you are able to push large distances it shouldn't be too much of a problem. That's what I find at the moment when I use flak, as I rally it across the map they all bunch up at the back of the army and all get to the battle at the same. time.

Statistics: Posted by Kalvirox — 25 Aug 2016, 19:38

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T15:28:03+02:00

Apofenas wrote:
Banger: Yes, i see every other flak now has same speed as unit it should support. Even though Rhino is main cybran t2 unit most of the time, the Hoplite and Wagner are still very good options. Flak is more important to them as they are much more vulnerable to air units.

THIS.

Can't tell you how much I love packs of stealth hoplites.... I was really mad you decided to base the speed of the t2 flak on the slowest t2 ground unit when it should match the fastest and keep up with all of them. I feel micro-managing armies to ensure flak is with them will be VERY annoying.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 25 Aug 2016, 15:28

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T14:55:43+02:00

i guess it could be likened to a fatboy
except one that has to deploy, has emp and (a lot) less dps, moves faster, can shoot from underwater, more fragile, no shield, no 1500dps direct fire, ect.

its more of a support unit; its effectiveness is best with a t3 army and on its own it doesnt do that much damage, not great for taking out shielded bases, can support navy

so yeah i guess there are a couple of differences, hope that clears it up for you
http://equilibrium.x10host.com/changelog/#t4land

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 25 Aug 2016, 14:55

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T14:29:36+02:00

Exotic_Retard wrote:
the thing with t3 arty is that some are way better than others for almost no cost difference.
aeon > seraphim > uef > cybran
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/un ... 02,URB2302
you can just compare the 2 arties and explain how 3600 mass makes up for all those differences.

the worst ones is range, because it means that on 20x20 maps cybran simply cant reach the enemy, and if it can be built on the edge, you just build an aeon arty just out of range and they cant shoot you.

its not that cybran should have the best everything, its that there is no sense to have such a huge difference in performance, for units with exactly the same role, and price.
and they are expensive units which makes it worse, and they have a snowball effect, and its actually kinda cheese, and the list goes on. its incredible how silly this is

(ah well fixed in equilibrium)

but yeah, i agree with iszh here, give the unit a new distinct role that isnt t3 arty, either a true mobile exp, or a true exp arty (in eq its focused on being a mobile arty, so that you see it more often in game, and so its more unique than a mavor clone)

have a nice day <3

So EQ's Scathis is sort of along the lines of a 20-strong group of T3 Mobile Arty in one unit? That kind of feel? Almost, in fact, like a high-firing Fatboy?

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 25 Aug 2016, 14:29

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T10:58:50+02:00

the thing with t3 arty is that some are way better than others for almost no cost difference.
aeon > seraphim > uef > cybran
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/un ... 02,URB2302
you can just compare the 2 arties and explain how 3600 mass makes up for all those differences.

the worst ones is range, because it means that on 20x20 maps cybran simply cant reach the enemy, and if it can be built on the edge, you just build an aeon arty just out of range and they cant shoot you.

its not that cybran should have the best everything, its that there is no sense to have such a huge difference in performance, for units with exactly the same role, and price.
and they are expensive units which makes it worse, and they have a snowball effect, and its actually kinda cheese, and the list goes on. its incredible how silly this is

(ah well fixed in equilibrium)

but yeah, i agree with iszh here, give the unit a new distinct role that isnt t3 arty, either a true mobile exp, or a true exp arty (in eq its focused on being a mobile arty, so that you see it more often in game, and so its more unique than a mavor clone)

have a nice day <3

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 25 Aug 2016, 10:58

Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

2016-08-25T09:09:57+02:00

I ve been complaining about the t2 t3 engi nerf because i told as well this will be a huge disadvantage especially for uef. But i wanted to give it a chance for testing. It makes sniping UEF even more easy. In the testing games it was really like once you re down with your hp you will not restore it within 10 minutes. I am afraid that it will slow down games since agressive acus are punished and not rewarded.

Scathis change i only do not like because it is out of any logic. I was raging somewhere before about useless cybran buff when faf appeared. Here we have another one. Scathis was the super exp of cybran like all other factions have. 250k mass, it was a mobile mavor with 80km range. Just for the sake lets do something to make cybran more cool it was buffed to a lategame overpowered t3 arti. My advise here simply take this whole change back and make it a super exp again. Just imagine setons clutch you got a sam wall you lost all coasts and you try to get a super exp paragon mavor or super nuke. What will cybran do? They dont have such a unit anymore ... please seriously please stop this messing arround with cybran units buff them here and there and reset the values to be a t4 gameender again. It is anyways useless with the new valus and op on smaller maps with the old values. Thats a pain to watch how cybran units when some people dont like them are changed into toys which are borderline op in some situations. STOP IT!

The t3 arti values are no reason to make scathis an alternative to t3 arti because "it is the worst". Can cybran people finally accept not the have the best unit or a super alternative at all positions?

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 25 Aug 2016, 09:09