Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-12-13T11:19:13+02:00

100 balance mods in the forum
100 balance mods in the forum
Find a cheese strat, make an adjustment
101 balance mods in the forum
101 balance mods in the forum.....

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 13 Dec 2017, 11:19

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-12-12T19:17:09+02:00

what is this bhedit i read about here and there ? yet another balance mod ?

Statistics: Posted by lapantouflemagic — 12 Dec 2017, 19:17

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-12-11T18:44:54+02:00

Blackheart wrote:
Easy answer: BHedit.

remove ras change and maybe

Statistics: Posted by Feather — 11 Dec 2017, 18:44

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-12-01T19:35:56+02:00

Percy/brick speed got buffed so it looks more like othuum speed.

wha...you...you mean bricks used to be even slower... ?

however, if i had to give an idea...well, othuums are tanks right ? and tanks are supposed to be good at building up speed over time, no ? well i mean, as most wheeled/tracked vehicles, and to the contratry of bots, that are limited to their little legs...

so my idea would be possibly to give those tanks a higher top speed, but a much slower acceleration and shitty maneuverability. this way they would be fairly good at charging in a base of killing a kiting fatboy, although they may have trouble turning around and getting back home without being wrecked by whatever's lurking in the fog of war.

regarding the rest...well honestly i don't know, i play mostly cybran and really feels that bricks suck ass. sure thery're tough and all, but deep down, to me it's basically three loyalists taped together for a result that is ungodly slow. if you really want to change some stuff, i think it would be better to go an entirely different way from what we're used to, give them a slower firing rate and higher damage, or stealth/cloak when not moving to make it an ambush unit (because who would ever want to raid a base with that ? if your plan is to kill your ennemy's grandchildren, fine, but otherwise...) or give them decent torperdoes so that you can do amphibious sneak attacks without having your entire army raped by three marauding T1 subs...

anyway, it's late, more ideas tomorrow !

Statistics: Posted by lapantouflemagic — 01 Dec 2017, 19:35

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-11-07T03:53:44+02:00

Petricpwnz wrote:
Farmsletje wrote:
Mephi wrote:Every nerf of a unit, which affects one of its strength, makes the unit more like all other units. Quite obvious.

Lol no

Sera t3: Buff t3 shield to make othuums more durable > doesn't make it like other units
Percy: slower RoF or slower walking speed > not like other units.

I was just saying some examples. I don't think all changes are bad, like i said in my post.

Nah, in teamgames harb rape doesn't exist :3

Balance doesn't work like that. You can't buff a totally different unit and hope it indirectly buffs othuum and solves all issues and doesn't create new ones, maybe in some other game but the way FA is designed any significant faction diversity is often detrimental. Best example would be aurora, so unique so different! But it provides insta-win on maps like theta and significant disadvantage on raid maps. And don't even argue about bombers/gun and stuff here, there is a lot more going on here than simple build Y to counter X. Again, I'm gonna talk about it when I make a breakdown vid on t3 once it's in beta. Also harb speed is buffed again and current values are speed from 3 - 2.8 turn rate 120 - 130 so thats like 6-7% of speed nerf and 8-9% turn rate buff so no harb isn't slow or raped or anything. I'm basing the changes on gameplay effects it gives first and on what would be cool to have second.

It's an example. Not a thoroughly thought out plan. The entire thing was just my opinion that i just wanted to share.

Also, i only heard about the decrease of the harb speed nerf later from mephi

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 07 Nov 2017, 03:53

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-11-07T03:32:48+02:00

Farmsletje wrote:
Mephi wrote:Every nerf of a unit, which affects one of its strength, makes the unit more like all other units. Quite obvious.

Lol no

Sera t3: Buff t3 shield to make othuums more durable > doesn't make it like other units
Percy: slower RoF or slower walking speed > not like other units.

I was just saying some examples. I don't think all changes are bad, like i said in my post.

Nah, in teamgames harb rape doesn't exist :3

Balance doesn't work like that. You can't buff a totally different unit and hope it indirectly buffs othuum and solves all issues and doesn't create new ones, maybe in some other game but the way FA is designed any significant faction diversity is often detrimental. Best example would be aurora, so unique so different! But it provides insta-win on maps like theta and significant disadvantage on raid maps. And don't even argue about bombers/gun and stuff here, there is a lot more going on here than simple build Y to counter X. Again, I'm gonna talk about it when I make a breakdown vid on t3 once it's in beta. Also harb speed is buffed again and current values are speed from 3 - 2.8 turn rate 120 - 130 so thats like 6-7% of speed nerf and 8-9% turn rate buff so no harb isn't slow or raped or anything. I'm basing the changes on gameplay effects it gives first and on what would be cool to have second.

Statistics: Posted by Petricpwnz — 07 Nov 2017, 03:32

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-11-07T01:59:25+02:00

Farmsletje wrote:
What i'm scared about is that t3 units will be made too identical to eachother.

Disregarding the balance, almost all t3 units had a specific playstyle. Loya's early t3 raid unit but can be decent when mixed with bricks for a headsup fight. harbs fast speed and good vs t1/t2 and a good harassment unit, can win in small numbers vs stronger t3 units when microed. Percy bad vs t1 but good vs t2/t3 (especially in larger numbers). Very slow but very strong in headsup matches. Othuum wasn't very well balanced, but the idea was that it very strong once it got close (and you could use t3 shields to get that extra hp to get close theoretically), etc etc etc.

If i remember correctly (correct me if i'm wrong):

Harb speed got nerfed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Percy/brick speed got buffed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Harb firerate got nerfed so it looks more like percy firerate.
Othuum range got buffed so it has similar range as harbs.

I know that balancing is hard, but changing the playstyle of units drastically imo isn't the way to do it.

Fyi, some of the buffs/nerfs i can live with, but especially the harb nerf really triggers me. It feels like a complete different unit.

I'm on it mate Just ask Petric, I'm constantly on at him for making things too similar and prodding him to try new stuff :p

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 07 Nov 2017, 01:59

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-11-06T22:19:03+02:00

Mephi wrote:
Every nerf of a unit, which affects one of its strength, makes the unit more like all other units. Quite obvious.

Lol no

Sera t3: Buff t3 shield to make othuums more durable > doesn't make it like other units
Percy: slower RoF or slower walking speed > not like other units.

I was just saying some examples. I don't think all changes are bad, like i said in my post.

Nah, in teamgames harb rape doesn't exist :3

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 06 Nov 2017, 22:19

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-11-06T21:32:52+02:00

Farmsletje wrote:
What i'm scared about is that t3 units will be made too identical to eachother.

Disregarding the balance, almost all t3 units had a specific playstyle. Loya's early t3 raid unit but can be decent when mixed with bricks for a headsup fight. harbs fast speed and good vs t1/t2 and a good harassment unit, can win in small numbers vs stronger t3 units when microed. Percy bad vs t1 but good vs t2/t3 (especially in larger numbers). Very slow but very strong in headsup matches. Othuum wasn't very well balanced, but the idea was that it very strong once it got close (and you could use t3 shields to get that extra hp to get close theoretically), etc etc etc.

If i remember correctly (correct me if i'm wrong):

Harb speed got nerfed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Percy/brick speed got buffed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Harb firerate got nerfed so it looks more like percy firerate.
Othuum range got buffed so it has similar range as harbs.

I know that balancing is hard, but changing the playstyle of units drastically imo isn't the way to do it.

Fyi, some of the buffs/nerfs i can live with, but especially the harb nerf really triggers me. It feels like a complete different unit.

Every nerf of a unit, which affects one of its strength, makes the unit more like all other units. Quite obvious.

Firerate
harb: 1->0.85
percy: 0.18

pretty equal right?

Some unit strength were cut down to balance them yes. Therefore other stats are more different, for example personal shields have an increased performance in current version. But no unit is completly different especially the harb, it is a bit slower and weaker, but arent we all tired of harbs raping everything? The only unit for which that might be true is titan, because it actually can be used

Statistics: Posted by Mephi — 06 Nov 2017, 21:32

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-11-06T20:33:40+02:00

What i'm scared about is that t3 units will be made too identical to eachother.

Disregarding the balance, almost all t3 units had a specific playstyle. Loya's early t3 raid unit but can be decent when mixed with bricks for a headsup fight. harbs fast speed and good vs t1/t2 and a good harassment unit, can win in small numbers vs stronger t3 units when microed. Percy bad vs t1 but good vs t2/t3 (especially in larger numbers). Very slow but very strong in headsup matches. Othuum wasn't very well balanced, but the idea was that it very strong once it got close (and you could use t3 shields to get that extra hp to get close theoretically), etc etc etc.

If i remember correctly (correct me if i'm wrong):

Harb speed got nerfed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Percy/brick speed got buffed so it looks more like othuum speed.
Harb firerate got nerfed so it looks more like percy firerate.
Othuum range got buffed so it has similar range as harbs.

I know that balancing is hard, but changing the playstyle of units drastically imo isn't the way to do it.

Fyi, some of the buffs/nerfs i can live with, but especially the harb nerf really triggers me. It feels like a complete different unit.

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 06 Nov 2017, 20:33

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-10-27T04:45:12+02:00

I'll just wait for beta before saying anything else, then.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 27 Oct 2017, 04:45

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-10-27T02:01:53+02:00

That's what most of these patches have been like

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 27 Oct 2017, 02:01

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-10-27T01:54:57+02:00

Great start towards playing bhedit

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 27 Oct 2017, 01:54

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-10-26T23:25:02+02:00

If somebody could code it so personal shields won't restore if in combat, that would be a great start.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 26 Oct 2017, 23:25

Re: Reasonable T3 Change Feedback

2017-10-26T20:59:32+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
Okay so a lot of this was mostly just me being salty at sniper bots being obscene. I’m glad they haven’t been looked at by you atm.

The advantage of percival I would assume is going to come from major parashield spam to counter bricks because of the nice hp for mass ratio they provide. Unit stat wise I wouldn’t really say they are far and ahead of brick so much as UEF is ahead of Cybran at t3 because of an inability for Cybran to counter parashields without tech trading. If I’m missing something feel free to explain it to me.

Look, I get that the balance forum is cancer and that every balance deals with new thread of bitching where 90% is trash complaints. I get that the siege tank/harb decision is the “easy” fix. My suggestion would be what I suggested prior. Cut the -300 constant e cost to -150 e cost or so for the t3 mobile shield which opens up significant options for phim t3 stage. I don’t think unit mix is that much of a problem for the shields as it would really just divide phim forces into shields + siege tanks, shields + sniper bots. Perhaps a slight speed buff for othuum so they could get into range effectively? I’m not sure on exact numbers because I don’t know what a .1 speed buff translates to.

The “people” would be the majority of people in threads complaining about titan. The “turn titan into loya” suggestion was always shot down in favor of making titan different in some way. I don’t really care that much about this because it’s nice that the titan might actually be made, but I figured it would have extra speed but less range than loya or something similar. This isn’t one of the issues in the game that I’ve been interested in thinking about so I can understand if the option you went with was the overall best option.

I do understand that it is an alpha. However, I figured posting now would be better than just waiting and hoping that (snipers) were just an epic prank.

Actually percies' advantage isn't from parashields at all (tho that's a thing too), its 100% in alpha strike and it's all about using it ("kiting" bricks). Due to fa pathfinding being c a n c e r you go and pick on bricks retreat and pick again and so on, dps tweaks were actually to make brick not suck total ass but only medium ass. In general it makes your unit use the deciding point, do you just run in without focus fire and lose or do you do some micro and win with epic result. Actually that's mostly the theme of all changes I've done as I will explain when beta is ready.

As for othuums i get what you mean but shield drain change will also change t3 shield spam for covering navy or t4 etc. Again, retaining land balanced but unintentionally changing something else. Frankly othuum itself isnt brought too much to be like harb, it's just made to suck as least as possible vs kiting units. Harb on the other hand got othuumized and I'm still thinking of ways to revert its more "speedy" role. That also will come with eventual shield reworks because frankly atm personal shields on harb/titan etc are only an e drain and don't do much, so that should add more variety to these units too.

Also huge thing about othuum-harb is that you kinda have to make them perform more or less even heads up, making it not like this will 100% guarantee explosion of hundreds of aeon assess when they lose unmicroed harbs to othuums.
Actually there is some decently big maneuverability rework idea I will try but I have a feeling it won't work.