Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-08-11T14:28:53+02:00

I don't have the impression that the navy balance is that bad. Maybe the frigate needs a little nerf and the sub a little buff, but a complete overhaul isn't necessary in my opinion.

Statistics: Posted by H-master — 11 Aug 2020, 14:28

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-07-13T06:45:15+02:00

your assessments seem to be move up and shoot play (practically brain-dead). With cybran navy you can still retreat using L shapes and get easy high probability hits in on chasing units. Also the sheer eco cost of constantly putting t1 air scouts over the navy makes the difference on either unit count or early t3 transition. Cruiser doesn't ever seem weak to me on AA and it vomits fire at nearly the same range as the destroyer making it great support fire. So if your cybran moves up to range and shoots on attack move and doesn't use counter-intel boats, then yes t2 is weak. With any amount of control its completely strong and the high rate of fire makes the opponents dodge game way faster tick (vs aeon especially).

Its the aeon t1 of the water, but usually you have room to back up and once your advantages stack from making your opponent scramble to play blind (less mass on target) and chase you as you kite the view ranges you can literally just speed win with it.

So again cybran can't be the best at everything. It makes sense for them to have weaker t1 just to offset the best run-by style t1 land.

Statistics: Posted by Spy_Emanciator — 13 Jul 2020, 06:45

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-07-12T00:02:17+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
Frigs are OP. Doesn't change the fact that even what might be considered a slight nerf to Cyb frig will have a huge impact on their navy viability, particularly with their lack of hover and their shitty t2 navy.

Hover hasn't been good against ships since the hover water speed nerf. I never use hover against frigates because it's asking to be face-raped with terrible trades. 4 Cybran frigates costing 1,000 mass can easily destroy 20 auroras costing 1,040 mass with zero frigates sunk. And god help you if you try to kill frigates with T1 Aeon bombers.

Cybran Frigate should simply cost the reasonable sum of 300 mass per. It is easily the strongest frigate by-far against both surface and air targets. 10 mass cost higher than what Aeon has - which cannot even shoot air - is more than fair.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 12 Jul 2020, 00:02

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-30T21:03:16+02:00

Wesmania wrote:
Let's remove radar from Cyb frigates and make moles amphibious

This will silence everyone who says Cybran needs a hover unit.

Statistics: Posted by armacham01 — 30 Jun 2020, 21:03

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-30T17:25:27+02:00

Cruiser is awful for dealing with air (luckily frig has absurd monster aa)

Destro is:
1) easiest to dodge
2) can’t kite (suggesting to kite with salem just proves you have 0 idea what you’re talking about)

What the destro can do is jebait enemy navy into 6 billion cyb frigs that outclass everything else.

I would always take aeon or phim destro over salem.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 30 Jun 2020, 17:25

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-30T15:08:05+02:00

Well first of all, the UEF and Seraphim Cruiser's TML is not useless. It's a pretty strong siege weapon. Especially the UEF which can more easily overpower TMD with their 2 HP missiles.

Second, Cybran T2 navy absolutely needs the intel advantage because they can't shoot backwards. So retreating with their navy means bad losses with little damage done in return. This is also where their frigate power has to come into effect.

Third, Cybran cruisers have the worst AA with a low RoF and a low missile speed. The cruisers often fire twice on targets they kill in one shot. With cruisers that have higher missile speed, this doesn't happen, so they more often switch targets.

Cybran Destroyers also have the lowest HP, which means you need less torp bombers to deal with them. Or to look at it another way, you can afford to lose more during the naval battle, and still be effective against the destroyers.

A Cybran combination of T2 and frigates is strong, but not OP. T2 navy does have a hard time on its own.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 30 Jun 2020, 15:08

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-30T11:53:06+02:00

how do you consider their t2 navy shitty? They outrange the intel of everything most of the time just doing free damage and their cruiser fires like a destroyer instead of just being a mobile sam site with useless tac missiles. That assesment is just wrong. A good cybran player doesn't even need battleships to win. They can just curb stomp everything with intel and kiting, kill facs before t3 transition and walk the destroyers up on land to bombard further. Totally Op how fast cybran recloaks after scout, and the rate of fire makes dodging fire a hair pulling experience.

Your assessment is wrong.

Statistics: Posted by Spy_Emanciator — 30 Jun 2020, 11:53

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-09T01:17:10+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
Evildrew wrote:I dont know why you complain about cybran frigates being OP, you among many others have had the opportunity to play with FA RTS mod for years where this and many other balance and game play issues are addressed, yet you choose to play the official sim city balance focused only on balancing T1 tanks...

I play ladder. Ladder does not allow mods, no matter how good they are

Sad but true. In that case your best hope is to wait 2-3 years and maybe it will be improved

Statistics: Posted by Evildrew — 09 Jun 2020, 01:17

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-08T23:13:37+02:00

Better players than I can correct me on this, but aren’t frigates like the most important element of navies? So even having a weaker T2, a cheaper/better frigate results in easy/strong T1 Win that should result in denying enemy t2 stage.* And winning Navy as Cybran means you leverage your T2/Salem into land units/gain ability to push in. Through I’d prefer other factions get buffs than Cybran nerfs.

*Or just means enemy Sub Spams which makes it harder for them to raid. I dunno just spitballing here.

Statistics: Posted by Dragun101 — 08 Jun 2020, 23:13

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-08T23:03:59+02:00

RedX wrote:
Don't they have the best sub killer in the game though?

FunkOff wrote:
3rd worst is second best. Frigate spam counters everything on the water except subs - which torp bombers murder - and so an OP frigate makes Cybran's navy generally OP. And their frigate isn't OP by a little, it's OP by a LOT. The frigate AA is too good for the frigates to be cost-effectively countered by even tech 2 air, and their cost is MORE THAN 10% less than Aeon's frigate. 40 mass difference! That's almost 20%! That would be like having a mantis that cost only 40 mass but also can shoot air!

Frigs are OP. Doesn't change the fact that even what might be considered a slight nerf to Cyb frig will have a huge impact on their navy viability, particularly with their lack of hover and their shitty t2 navy.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 08 Jun 2020, 23:03

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-08T22:32:49+02:00

Evildrew wrote:
I dont know why you complain about cybran frigates being OP, you among many others have had the opportunity to play with FA RTS mod for years where this and many other balance and game play issues are addressed, yet you choose to play the official sim city balance focused only on balancing T1 tanks...

I play ladder. Ladder does not allow mods, no matter how good they are

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 08 Jun 2020, 22:32

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-08T22:31:01+02:00

I dont know why you complain about cybran frigates being OP, you among many others have had the opportunity to play with FA RTS mod for years where this and many other balance and game play issues are addressed, yet you choose to play the official sim city balance focused only on balancing T1 tanks...

Statistics: Posted by Evildrew — 08 Jun 2020, 22:31

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-08T21:22:56+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
Cyb navy is carried by their frig. Their cruiser is the worst or 3rd worst and their destro is the 3rd worst.

3rd worst is second best. Frigate spam counters everything on the water except subs - which torp bombers murder - and so an OP frigate makes Cybran's navy generally OP. And their frigate isn't OP by a little, it's OP by a LOT. The frigate AA is too good for the frigates to be cost-effectively countered by even tech 2 air, and their cost is MORE THAN 10% less than Aeon's frigate. 40 mass difference! That's almost 20%! That would be like having a mantis that cost only 40 mass but also can shoot air!

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 08 Jun 2020, 21:22

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-08T08:59:09+02:00

Don't they have the best sub killer in the game though?

Statistics: Posted by RedX — 08 Jun 2020, 08:59

Re: Cybran frigate OP

2020-06-07T19:15:27+02:00

Cyb navy is carried by their frig. Their cruiser is the worst or 3rd worst and their destro is the 3rd worst.

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 07 Jun 2020, 19:15