Forged Alliance Forever

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2016-05-01T15:56:38+02:00

I usually find that the simplest solutions are often the best ones.

I like the idea of introducing a grenade/rocket weapon for the Titan. IMO it should work something like the Hoplite. With range only slightly greater then that of the main plasma cannons. It shouldn't drastically increase the Titan's DPS. But it would give it a rather nice "alpha strike". This would make the unit actually useful for it's intended purpose (that is raiding) without hugely upsetting the existing balance with other T3 units. The "alpha-strike" philosophy also suits the general character of the unit, which has a lot of it's HP invested in a personal shield, and a fast movement speed.

Another auxiliary feature, which would not directly effect balance, but maybe make it a little more useful, is to give the Titan a radar jammer. So that it can decoy PD, Brick, and Percival fire as it is approaching from beyond visual range. It would be able to get in a little closer and use it's main plasma cannons effectively on those static targets. it would otherwise have very little impact during a prolonged fight. It would be a nice ancillary feature, which would be somewhat equivalent to the Loyalist TMD and EMP features - or the Harbringer reclaim ability.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 01 May 2016, 15:56

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2016-02-17T04:42:47+02:00

I will necro this thread to point out some important things.

Technically, Aeon and Seraphim are mirror images of each other on most technical levels. Cybran and UEF are mirror images of each other, too.

About Cerberus killing Serpentine missiles so well - Izsh, that is life. In life, you don't get fair fights. I understand the desire to make all factions equal, but the idea that some factions have weakness where others have strengths is vital to FAF balance. UEF suffer at T1 and T2 but when they rush T3... their opponent is going down really fast. With those Percivals...
Aeon and Seraphim are excellent at game ending at T2 due to their strong obsidians and Ilshavohs that chew through other T2 units.
Cybrans are good for game ending at T1, since their Mantis is the best T1 unit and the fastest one. In other levels - they are not good. Cybrans do have a pretty cheap defense but it is weaker that other factions. Cerberus is good for chewing up T1 units, making it ideal for rushing against hordes. However, it lack the necessary firepower to kill slower-moving but more powerful T2 before they deal significant or irreparable damage.

Just to note something that some people may have pointed out to me or others:
"UEF Striker is the cheapest T1 tank."
That statement is false. Striker is the weakest in DPS and the strongest in armor. It does not have the same mass cost - 4 mass more expensive than Mantis. If you make a few of each - not much difference but with spam...

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 17 Feb 2016, 04:42

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-21T14:28:35+02:00

About the snipers i agree with you but i am still searching other solutions dont want to reduce range. The titan you re right was not ok but i think just the speed and turn rate should fix it. And still even if it is not reaching the level of a loyalist, is it seriously needed? I doubt if i improve titan it has to defeat loyalists and harbs mass equal. You cant balance this game always mass equal thats simply an illusion. If it rapes bases better and/or is winning finally over t2 better because of higher damage and small burning splash thats already a nice extra which enables the possibilty to rush to this unit. The big difference between titan and loyalist will still be titan will be a rush option for t3 now enabled and loyalist will stay a full t3 usable unit till endgame.
Titan would be also nice for drops. You cant always built 6 percivals for sitting in continental. If titan is an option for base raping rush then why not to use this one in t3 transports. Maybe with this small splash damage it enables even the option to use titan in bigger t3 land battles since dps automatically increased. Loyalists for emp titan for close combat splash. I even think that icedreamer in his titan original mod where i ve taken it from was planning to do something alike this concept, he wanted to reach a base destroyer. He had much higher burntime and range for rockets. I do not like the idea with higher range, but the idea to create another unit alike mongoose on t3 level seems great for me and not so difficult to balance you will see because of low range compared to other t3.

@ ithilis "not changing so much" i was talking about my mod in general and not compared to your mod

V11
T2 Fighter Bomber Increased aa dps 260 (no change vs t1 inties -> overkill)
T2 Fighter Bomber Increased speed 18
t2 Fighter Bomber Range increased by 5 (seraphim bomber bugfix)
t2 Janus Rate of fire increased 1.15 (for testing)
t2 static aa guns stats alike sera t3 sam (dps not changed)
t3 sam got t2 aa gun splash (for sera means t2 aa and t3 aa guns are same except damage and splash)
Titan got rocket launcher with 100 DPS Napalm min range 16 max range 25
Titan Plasma gun reduced dps to 120
Sera Sniper bot got 2100 hp
Aeon sniper bot got 2500 hp
All t3 arti got 2000 hp
Othuum 50 dps less each side gun double fire rate for main gun same dps (speed was increased in balance patch)

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 21 Jul 2015, 14:28

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-21T11:22:38+02:00

Iszh wrote:
should not be afraid to add my mod since it changes not sooooo much.

to be honest on sniper/titan i change less much less.

And only small decrease hp on sniper bot is a not way. something with 75r cant have 3500hp. Also cant have 2500hp. its simply uncounterable.
our testing was for you OK? same mass in loyalist rape titan whiteout lose one piece.. its too far from ok.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 21 Jul 2015, 11:22

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-21T10:00:46+02:00

Well ok my last post was a bit frustration because i realized that this has no seriou chance to be taken into a patch. I will adapt it and go on at least for fun to improve it. I was so blind not to notice that icedreamer reduced the speed and turn rate of titan. This would improve definately a lot the results with titan and the weapons it has atm. The micro fight i ve done with you have shown that they are more or less ok now still lose. With more speed and turn rate they can stay out of emp range and keep the minimum range better. Also better evading shots.

Sniper health i will reduce a bit and increase also arti health since the snipers could easily kill the only counter weapon vs snipers.

Some more small changes and removing some changes since it was already done in 3644 and i will do a V11 and then try to test it together with 3644
People who already play a testing mod should not be afraid to add my mod since it changes not sooooo much.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 21 Jul 2015, 10:00

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-21T02:15:41+02:00

lower build time doesnt matter that much when you dont have mass for it. Especialy take care for mass drain/s for not get down your eco balance.
And still when it will be build faster, will it be better against T2 units? When you simply compare it with T2 units on same mass, and take in count price of T3 factory.. how much titans you need to have to be better against T2?

This is not way how it will work, only change bt nearly never fix problem. Instead of making hot-fix make some proper fix that dont make problem only less obvious but what realy heal the problem. How to do it its on you

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 21 Jul 2015, 02:15

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-20T19:52:39+02:00

Well ok meanwhile i noticed there are to many things to take care with this. Once i told titan is like a t3 mech marine. Maybe that would be a simple and times more easier effect to provide uef the ability for rushing t3 since titan cannot seriously own t2 units maybe make it really a t3 mech marine. The advantage of those light bots is built time. Lower the built time so easy spam is possible and fine.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 20 Jul 2015, 19:52

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-20T13:11:03+02:00

i tested your mod ISH to test the titans. i got one note to share :

New titan are way too slow IMO. there were as fast as lab, now titans run slower than lab.
apart from that, i love that missile volley

Statistics: Posted by SilverKronos — 20 Jul 2015, 13:11

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-19T17:19:59+02:00

Ok i fixed it land t3 balance in Iszh Balance V10 working inclusive titan with rockets. Titan and loyalist should now provide an early protection vs harbingers in low numbers.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 19 Jul 2015, 17:19

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-17T04:32:35+02:00

I'm pretty sure IceDreamer figured out how to remove the lasers colliding with missiles for all projectiles, but it wasn't implemented because 3641 was bugfix, not balance patch. Maybe could be revisited.

Statistics: Posted by quark036 — 17 Jul 2015, 04:32

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-16T12:43:00+02:00

The problem are not the starting rockets, the laser would hit. The problem was the 10.000 rockets flying down on monkey directly in front of his laser. To Change the bone for hitting monkey is not possible. I didnt test, but more or less the same problem should appear if 20 cybran mml will shoot the monkey.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 16 Jul 2015, 12:43

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-16T12:22:49+02:00

I meant:
move the rockets to the sides so that they don't fly into the laser (if possible)

The Battletech mech was there only as a reference for the rocket's positioning.

And this raises a question: does the laser do this with all projectiles or only tml? Are we giving the Titan tml or a more "direct fire" weapon? If the latter in both questions, can the rocket have the (possible) "do not get destroyed by laser" flag as other projectiles?

Also Atlas>Timberwolf deal with it

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 16 Jul 2015, 12:22

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-16T07:21:37+02:00

Thats not mech warrior here, but just for you we will change it to the look of a madcat mk2

The unit is balanced now i advise testing. Most likely it is still a bit to weak since the weapon needs mirco because of minimal range. Titan would definately lose a fight vs a loyalist if both units are moving atm. But it is stronger in general.
The "bug" with rockets hitting laser i had already in normal faf without any mod very extreme. In one of my games i attacked with t2 mml lots of cybran t2 pd. The permanent rays of the t2 pd killed all the low flying aeon mml rockets incoming better than tmd.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 16 Jul 2015, 07:21

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-15T23:24:05+02:00

Try maybe to move them to the "sides"
Between the body and the arms like this

Only with less and bigger rockets though.

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 15 Jul 2015, 23:24

Re: IF you ever come back to balance of Titan

2015-07-15T22:12:09+02:00

Back to topic, i managed to add titan to my mod ... so funny. I left the napalm with very short burn time.

Min range of rockets is 16 max range is 25
main plasma gun got now 105 dps and 25 range
means it has overall 205 dps but you need to micro it.

I tested sandbox the unit seems to be fine win over loyalist with micro loyalist win over them with micro harbinger the same

All other changes are as usual not changing the game a lot but should increase the intuitiv game feeling.
Mod is called Iszh Balance V6
Here full changelog:

T2 Fighter Bomber Increased aa dps 260
T2 Fighter Bomber Increased speed 17
t2 Fighter Bomber Range increased by 5
t2 Janus Rate of fire increased 1.15 (for testing)
T3 Bomber decreased speed 16
t2 static aa guns stats like sera t3 sam
t3 sam got t2 aa gun splash
Summit eco increased 15%
Titan got rocket launcher with 100 DPS Napalm min range 16 max range 25
Titan Plasma gun reduced dps to 105 and got 25 range
Loyalist bolter dps double 30 to 60 new loyalist dps is 219
Sera Sniper bot got 3500 hp
Aeon sniper bot got 3900 hp
Othuum 50 dps less each side gun double fire rate for main gun same dps

I already found a bug with those rockets icedreamer, the laser of a monkeylord was not able to hit the titans anymore when the rocket spam was flying because it was hitting the rockets all the time. It is not dramatic since sooner or later the monkey won and in most cases this will not happen so extreme but better to solve this. Tomorrow i will simply reduce the rocket spam to 4 instead of 10 rockets that should already help.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 15 Jul 2015, 22:12