Support Commanders

[Kryo]

This is rather a question than a suggestion.

Are SCU worth anything? I feel like they arent. you never see them.
First you have to build a very expensive Quantum Gate and then the use of SCUs is very limited.

Cant we do something bout this?

My first idea would be Quantum Gates should build all units (if they dont do this allready). In this casethe cost must be increased t match the cost of a totally upraded t3 factory (4190 mass for example)

SCU costs 18x the mass of t3 eng, and only have x4 buildpower
SCU costs 10x the mass of Harbinger, and only have x0.53 DPS

Ok their only extreme bonus is their HP, which makes them probably worth it for being the engineer on a drop so you can build before it dies instantly.
it has 30x the hp of a t3 eng and 5x the hp of a harbinger (incl shield).

But still the cost/use factor is very bad I think. The only way I can imagine, someone builds them is, if he has a Paragon or plays an x2 game 1on1 on Setons.

I would not buff them a lot, because a Support CU should not be incredibly stronger than a ACU which it is already right now, if you check the HP. I would first think about reducing their build cost dramatically.

[FunkOff]

SCUs see a lot of use in phantoms and FFAs.... Their build power, combat power and resource generation is not spectacular, but they have all three and that makes them unique.

Of course, one option that is certainly possible is making SCUs the sole-bearers of T4 technology.... which I think makes good sense. Unlike all the other tech transitions, there's no real transition between Tech 3 and tech 4, aside from a 490 mass engineer, which is less than tech 1 to tech 2. That would guarantee that SCUs got some use, because you'd need them to build the super-powerful experimentals.

[Ze_PilOt]

Hm, if the cost and build time of XP are reduced accordingly, why not.

But they should have more use than that, I think we don't want to make the game even more complicated without any other good reason than "Now that unit must be built".

See my adjacency thread for more on what I don't like in FA

[ToejamS]

Agreed that the scu is the long lost cousin that no one likes because he is smelly. Hows about we give the dude a shower, scrub him up and find a use. I agree with pilot in that "Now that unit must be built" ethos but they could be such a versitile unit that can be used for more than making a teleporting GC.

Another suggestion is to make that teleport cheaper on the SCU, but mind that sacrifice will have to be balanced to stop said GC teleports. Teleporting units could make the game much more dynamic.

[Ze_PilOt]

An idea should be to boost or decrease the costs of the upgrades. For example, the anti air upgrade should transform the SCU in a mobile T3 AA, for a little more cost than a real SAM.

[Unconsumeable]

stupid idea, but with the talk about using specific upgrades... would it be possibly to add multiple configurations to the gateway. ie. built normal scu, combat scu, engineer acu, teleport acu.
first this would remove the annoying upgrade phases, and it would help new players to pick the "right upgrades" by just telling what they want.

but generally I dont know how a useful scu will work in smaller games, Supcom had them "useful" and I remember funny games where this was the only unit owning whole armies. I typically called him "Jesus" and sang prayers while he ran around.

SCUs just have very high HP, and some have serious regen or shield upgrades, I simply dont want another near-exp unit running around. they are solid walking resource generators and submerged engineers in bigger games, very hard to take down.

[Lu_Xun_17]

@Rock: do you still have the file of the tests of balancing SACU we made 2 or 3 months ago ?

we were even think of what it would give at making quantium gate at T2 state. However this would be a too big change.

[Treble]

Should the sACU be added to the must assassinate to win the game category? I suppose they would be spammed in Phantom and FFA games though. I still think adding a single anti-nuke missile upgrade could be interesting. It would need some type of visual change so that it could be scouted.

[Raging_Squirrel]

Me and ROCK did some tests about it, and here is what we have found out:
1) Only Cybran and Seraphim SCUs got real use in combat (EMP gun upgrade and OC upgrade)
2) Given the current balance, they can never be an option. You cannot catch up with an enemy using t3/t4, he will just overwhelm you.

[Cobrand]

Me and ROCK did some tests about it, and here is what we have found out:
1) Only Cybran and Seraphim SCUs got real use in combat (EMP gun upgrade and OC upgrade)
2) Given the current balance, they can never be an option. You cannot catch up with an enemy using t3/t4, he will just overwhelm you.

Totally agreed. Average dps without upgrade is 100 for 9000 mass. T3 Brick has 375 dps for about 1000 mass.

Solutions are :
1) Make SCU cheaper (6000 mass instead of 9000 is better)
2) Make non-upgraded SCU stronger (500 dps and 10.000 hp more would be great)
3) Make upgrades cheaper or stronger. (except allocation ressource and teleport)

That way a SCU can beat at least two or three bricks and reclaim them, because usually a SCU can't do anything against T2 or T3 units, but has a cost of a T3.5