Restoration of 3599 EStorage/Overcharge?

[Veta]

I wasn't around for the unveiling of the original 3603 patch but what were everyone's thoughts regarding the removal of factory/engineer energy storage and the Overcharge rehaul in general? I understand why they did it, but it doesn't seem intuitive for new players when they have an ability they don't know they can unlock with what essentially amounts to a StarCraft-style prerequisite building in energy storage. To be honest it just seems like they wanted to force you to get storage superfluously instead of because of its innate macroeconomic value. It;'s also rather inconsistent that they removed energy storage on random buildings but retained mass storage...

So anyhow what would you guys think about a rollback of energy storage capacity for Factories and Engineers to 3599, and changing the overcharge ability so that its available from the start (and thus more intuitive). You could either restore starting energy to 5000 (requiring a full bar to use Overcharge) or you could decrease the energy cost of Overcharge from 5000 to 4000 (I'm partial the the former). Also Energy Storage would have to be addressed as its use as an Overcharge prerequisite would be gone.

I'm thinking the stats on Energy Storage could now be:
Cost: 125M (from 250M), 1200E (the same)
500HP (the same)
+4000 Estorage (from 5000)
1000 volatility damage (from 2000) radius of 5 (the same)

This reduction in the cost of energy storage, could make energy storage competitive and useful (even at T1) when compared against the prevalence of engineer/factory storage from 3599. It also nerfs the silly volatility of current estorage (but keeps them dangerous). If you compare these suggested stats to 3599 you're essentially getting double the energy storage for the same cost but at the price of double the volatility.

Edit: This would also eliminate the energy storage snipes that currently occur and... really shouldn't destroy your ability to overcharge when you're already pulling in +1000 energy. The changes to energy storage in 3603 were rather awkward IMO. This (coupled with Funk's naval revisions) would probably bring a few people back that didn't much care for 3603 either.

[FunkOff]

I don't think this will change. The pros resoundingly like the 3603 energy storage change, as do I, and this is one of the best changes in a long time.

[Veta]

Ya I'm just getting used to it I guess. SupCom always had OC available from the start and since there's no tooltip that explains you need estorage/5000 energy now I definitely didn't notice the change. I remember thinking I needed to upgrade it or something. I guess you guys are planning on dropping mass storage from engies/factories too?

[FunkOff]

I guess you guys are planning on dropping mass storage from engies/factories too?

Why would we do that?

[Jace]

I think it was a good idea to improve gameplay.
.....but ultimately failed in the end.

Why do i think it was good:

+ Overcharge turned into something that isn't spammed anymore. So you will use it only on vaulable targets, as you can't shoot it every 5s anymore.
+ It buffed the T2 upgrade again, so not every game is about weapon upgrade and shooting it out anymore.
+ It buffed the T2 phase for the same reasons.
+ It should have stopped the forced commander shoot outs on small maps, but didnt in the end.

Why do i think it failed at the end:

- it comlicates the early game, its actually harder to build for overcharge than to build for normal T2Uprade.
- this is very hard on players who dont know about this mechanic.
- OC working on commanders destroys the good points about it completely. on small maps You are forced into this complicated buildorder, because if your opponent goes for it he will OC you to death, while you have no chance of fighting back if you dont go for oc. he will just assasinate you. in the end the good point was turned around by 180°.
- having this enormous deathdamage on Estorage nihilates any possilbility of using its adjacency, and even 1000 is too big. the fact that it will chain react everything to death will you leave always with no choice but putting it in a safe distance to other buildings.

[SJAndrew]

Jace, I respectfully disagree with pretty much everything you wrote (regzrding the bad facets of OC post 3599).

As far as I know, the OC frequency is no different. I think it just costs much more energy (I could be wrong - I have not felt a different frequency while playing). It CAN indeed be spammed once you have e-storage. Needing to build it just means that the initial 3-4 minutes of the game actually require you to make units (a novel idea).

The adjacency argument you cite, to me, is not compelling. The adjancency of e-storage is only profound in T3 anyway, and then you have shields etc. Early T1, build it off to the side by itself and don't wrap your hydro or whatever with it. You will be fine. I don't see anyone who is decent building EARLY e-storage adjacent to anything.

The buildorder you need is not anymore complex or idiosyncratic than 3599. I did not play 3603 or the new FAF versions until GPG died. It took me about 5-10 games to learn how to deal with the new OC mechanic and I like it much better.

Ultimately, the new OC mechanic and new deathnuke make early T1 much better imo. Now, you actually need tanks and support units as well as AA or air in order to trot your ACU out. This, to me, makes for a MUCH more dynamic early T1 than 3599 where you could send you ACU out naked without much consequence (on many maps).

To the OP. Get used to the new OC mechanic. It's better. I did not like it at first, but it actually makes e-storage a meaningful unit (in 3599 it was basically never built). It will also force you to make choices and use tactics early. Ultimately, it will make you better. Moreover, I think it makes for a more fun and compelling early game (you must invest resources and time into building e-storage before being able to render moot your opponents mass of 6 tanks with one shot).

[Veta]

I build 1 Estorage hidden in the back of my base. And depending on how much my enemy is spamming T1 I build it earlier. On the rare occasion that I go RAS I get about 4 Estorage (again hidden in the back of my base). But I would've gotten estorage for RAS in 3599 anyway.

OC is slower (50% slower) than it was in 3599 and costs 66% more - although it does slightly more damage vs ACUs and buildings now. If I'm totally honest about it it just seems like a poorly contrived game mechanic (maybe a good/neat idea... just poorly executed), after all, they've done nothing but rebalance it over and over since day 1.

I agree with everyone who thinks it was a clever way to force you to have to use another building that had otherwise been marked as 'useless' or 'wasteful'. It's unfortunate they couldn't just make Mass Storage and Energy Storage useful by their own merit.

[FunkOff]

I agree with everyone who thinks it was a clever way to force you to have to use another building that had otherwise been marked as 'useless' or 'wasteful'. It's unfortunate they couldn't just make Mass Storage and Energy Storage useful by their own merit.

Mass storage is useful on it's own merit because of adjacency to mex. Energy storage is useful on it's own merit because nothing else provides that service for free anymore.

[Veta]

Ya I meant useful as storage intrinsically as opposed to an effective way to buff your MEXs (although maybe it just has to be accepted that storage needs to have a dual role or it will be worthless, unless it's free). Like I'd still probably build MStorage for the adjacency even if it didn't also give you additional storage. But anyway NONE of this stuff is game breaking or would dramatically change anything really. FA is a great game and even if someone is a particularist when it comes to things like OC or T3 Navies you can still appreciate the strategic depth elsewhere.

[FunkOff]

well, you realize that stored resources are essentially wasted resources, right? if they didn't do things other htan simply store resources, nobody would ever build storage structures because there would be no point.