Fobo spam

[Crayfish]

What are people general views on T1 arty as things stand? Is it me, or are we seeing alot more arty spam in general and allot less dynamic T1 direct fire combat? Im aware that T1 arty is easily countered if you see it coming, but Im seeing allot of situations (especially on complex maps with alot going on) where the saving in micro management of just spamming t1 arty and sending it straight towards targets is winning out over combined arms. T1 arty does so much dps for the cost, has such big range, splash and ability to shoot over obstacles (and mobility in Fobo's case), that in alot of situations it requires a prohibitive amount of micro to cost effectively combat. The bigger the groups of t1 arty get, the problem becomes even worse since even if your dodging, the firing randomness and splash are just blanketing an entire area, there is no escape especially if there are any kind of terrain obstacles hindering your movement. What UEF arty did to 'Winters Duel' in Vanilla, Fobos now do to any similar cliff-edge, pass, ridge, or other terrain feature 'anywhere' on the map.
T1 PD is supposed to counter unmicro'd spam swarms, but T1 arty happens to be the direct counter unit to that also, so there is no choice allot of times but to intensively micro direct fire units, or go for expensive risky tech like gunships, bombers or T2. Its become an extremely effective direct combat unit with all the advantages of indirect fire.

To me T1 arty should only be effective for hard countering t1 PD, or for big drops where they are attacking large, high value targets. Aeon and (tho probably a little UP) Cybran t1 arty pretty much keep to this role because of thier small splash / poor accuracy and lack of hover. I think Fobos need somekind of drawback to address the above issues, whether it be cost, or speed or removal of splash damage something.

Just my opinion. What do you think?

[noobymcnoobcake]

T1 tanks will eat arty for breakfast all day every day. A little micro goes a long way. Frigates even more so. A frigate will easily have 20 arty kills if you just keep it moving.

[Plasma_Wolf]

The immediate questions I have on this topic are:

1. Can you provide me replays where Fobo spam is decisive and not counterable? I have seen some situations with many artillery but none of them were very successful without tanks to back them up.
2. How are things looking when you put in one bomber? One frigate? The commander? (I know that it can't be everywhere at the same time)
3. How much time is the player (who builds them) given?

[Crayfish]

Did i say the were uncounterable? Did i not mention that they can be beaten with micro, bombers etc etc etc...
My point is to restate what Ive already written, is that the trade off between the investment, in micro management / specific counter tech, to beat them is in 'more situations than I would like to see' (ie what I beleive thier role should be), is coming at too big a cost.

Not only do you need the specific counter unit, which can be risky and expensive (bombers / gunships) or that is often locked to land or sea (fobos can choose either to attack or escape), it also has to be in the right place and have the room to even be microd.

[Armmagedon]

fobos need micro too for be useful the same micro that need t1 direct fire units, and a t1 direct fire army will eat fobos easy if them both are microed.

the best thing of fobos is that them eat bases really fast and can do hover, but all artys are suposed to eat bases.

fobos are the best doing that but are the expensives too.

[FunkOff]

IMO, fobos are great, but very beatable. Further, Fobos are the only real advantage Seraphim has on large macro maps. Crap T1 naval, crap T2 naval, crap torpedo bomber, etc.... the fobo is all that makes up for those big weaknesses. A seraphim player is pretty much forced to rely on fobos because everything else they have is only average or weaker.

[Jace]

A replay you can discuss, if you want.

[Crayfish]

Let me see if i can guess whats in this replay.. just taking a blind stab in the dark now..
Might it be you Jace, in a 'single' replay, against low level competition, beating some phobo spam and therefore completely invalidating all the points I raised 100%?
Am I close?

[Jace]

Watch it and then guess again.

[Crayfish]

I dont have that map..