CZARs Purpose

[CocoaMoko]

Hey guys, how's it going?

I'm just curious what everyone thinks on the CZAR.

From what I've seen it has basically only one purpose which is to either ACU snipe (or SMD, Nuke, Para, etc). This works pretty well of couse, since if it makes it far enough it will kill either through it's DPS or with it's crash.

But...it really doesn't do much outside of those. If it's not sneaking in for a snipe of something, it's hovering doing nothing (maybe building aircraft), just a huge floating mass liability if it's spotted, since even a small group of 30-40 ASF can murder it pretty quickly.

I dunno, maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, and that's alright, I'd just like to here the opinions of more experienced people as well.

I think it would be better if it would actually change the air game, doing more damage to other aircraft. I suppose, that might tread into the "ASF are too strong/have no counter/etc etc" area. And then, making it harder to kill by air means it can do even more damage to land (even though it's quantum beam can still be kinda finicky the way it turns on/off).

It could also be useful if it could do more damage vs navy. Especially it's depth charges, if those were stronger it could be a much more effective tool vs subs and naval fleets. (You could argue that this should be the role of the Solace).

All in all, I guess it would be nice to see the mighty CZAR as more than just a 48000 mass mercy. It could use more roles. Other exps can be used to snipe very well (ML, GC, etc), but they can also be used defensively, or to take out firebases / expansions. But if you have an army of 70 ASF, and your enemy has an army of 1 CZAR surrounded by 70 ASF, your 70 ASF will rape the CZAR in one pass, then be able to engage the other army. You will still lose, but not by that much, possibly not at all if you micro well. The CZAR makes little difference.
Compare that scenario to 30 T3 bots vs 30 T3 bots and one GC. The GC will make a huge difference. Hopefully that illustration makes sense.

Those are a couple thoughts I had, I'm sure you guys have some other interesting thoughts. I could be quite wrong after all.

[Ze_PilOt]

Actually, a side effect of the new veterancy system buffed the CZAR to give him a more noble role.

4 ASF kills = one veterancy level.

Can go quite fast from 63800hp to 87000hp, and 65 hp/sec regen instead of 25.

Same for the firebeetle and T4 bomber. You should try it !

[Pavese]

What i realy would like to see is a speed increase of the czars AoE flak projectiles. That would be sort of neat

[Adraius]

Actually, a side effect of the new veterancy system buffed the CZAR to give him a more noble role.

4 ASF kills = one veterancy level.

Can go quite fast from 63800hp to 87000hp, and 65 hp/sec regen instead of 25.

Same for the firebeetle and T4 bomber. You should try it !

Unless I'm completely missing something, I don't see the purpose of veterancy on a firebeetle. =P

[Ze_PilOt]

There is veterancy on factories too

The veterancy system is adding default values to almost anything

[Plasma_Wolf]

Still, WHAT is the purpose of the Firebeetle?

And additionally, just 4 ASFs seems a little low (I didn't see the CZAR vet effect ingame though).

[CocoaMoko]

I hope that will be a non-issue soon, since pretty much all Exp are OP now on account of the new vetting lol, including the CZAR. It seems like giving the CZAR more health sooner just makes it able to kill land units longer, not so much to make it useful in an air war. That's a subject for another topic though.

I agree with Pavese, it would be nice to have CZARs. The BlackOps mod did this very well, with the Citadel unit. It will still go down to a ton of ASF logically, but it does a TON of damage to air units, it can take down a lot of ASF even if it takes a lot of damage. It can definitely change the shape of air game.

[Icy]

On the topic of Czars, can we get some clarification as to whether using the beam cannon to kill ASF swarms is considered a creative use of game mechanics or an exploit? (I won't explain it any more than this right now, as you can kill ridiculous numbers of ASF in seconds.)

[FunkOff]

On the topic of Czars, can we get some clarification as to whether using the beam cannon to kill ASF swarms is considered a creative use of game mechanics or an exploit? (I won't explain it any more than this right now, as you can kill ridiculous numbers of ASF in seconds.)

Seems like a creative use of game mechanics. If it ends up being a huge problem we can probably just lower CZAR altitude.

[regabond]

I've always seen the CZAR as a big multi-role unit. Its a create factory when it is being held in reserve. It kills bases, T4s, and ACUs very well if it can get past the ASFs and T3 sams, which it is NOT effective against. It is effective against gunships and light air. It can also take down navies without cruiser support.

On the topic of Czars, can we get some clarification as to whether using the beam cannon to kill ASF swarms is considered a creative use of game mechanics or an exploit? (I won't explain it any more than this right now, as you can kill ridiculous numbers of ASF in seconds.)

Seems like a creative use of game mechanics. If it ends up being a huge problem we can probably just lower CZAR altitude.

It is also preventable with a bit of ASF micro. Umm, lowering the CZAR altitude may also affect its flak effectiveness though. So be careful if that happens.