T1 Bomber is OP

[Alcide]

everyone will admit that the t1 bomber is not suppose to behave like a gunship.
is there a technical way to avoid the use of the trick : click under the bomber to stall it and esc to bomb everything?
it is explained here :

http://youtu.be/GxGjZj4Gk_A

the imba cup tourney is full of replays which show the problem too.

this modification may improve the situation : the bomber t1 will drop its payload only at full speed.

[Pavese]

T1 Bomber aint OP, just to cheap. The change was not needed and bomber was fine.


The only faction that somehow needed this whole bomber stuff is seraphim beacuse they lack LABs. But Faction diversity in FA is: every other faction has to have the same, except seraphim.

[ToejamS]

The bomber is balanced for the top 20-30 players. For the rest of us, the micro and recs needed to counter are much more than than our opponent, even if they are the same level have used. We just either hope that it gets changed ( good luck ) or learn to deal with it better. I dont think its fun at all.

[Lu_Xun_17]

I mainly agree with Toejams :

But as you said if only a top 20 player can stop an air first microed by an other top20 player, then it means that it's balanced. And it is actually on 80% of the ranked maps imo.
But (ah it really remembers me the mercy talks xD) the problem is that a top 20 player has here a really easy and fast way to win a lower rated opponent. And we now see more than 1/2 ranked game with some air first oppenings, and still too many players that really don't know how to effectivly counter this strategy. (TA4life we need a kill air first tutorial on youtube )

So even if the bomber first is probably balanced, i would agree with a small nerf on this strategy. ( i think the cost or buildtime is currently pretty nice pavese)

[Karottenrambo]

Well, you can maybe counter the early bomber on some maps with enough micro, but does the enemy really have a hard disadvantage if it fails? Its definitely a cheese, because you can almost write "gg"(depends on the map) if the early bomber is successful, but on the other hand the enemy should really have a problem is his cheese fails.... and thats currently not the case.

[Lu_Xun_17]

Well, you can maybe counter the early bomber on some maps with enough micro, but does the enemy really have a hard disadvantage if it fails? Its definitely a cheese, because you can almost write "gg"(depends on the map) if the early bomber is successful, but on the other hand the enemy should really have a problem is his cheese fails.... and thats currently not the case.

wrong : a counter includes to end this with a signifcant advantage Bomber first is an opening, but absolutly not an all in cheese. (the micro is fair way harder for the one with the bomber, but it's the unit order making which is really important to stop properly a bomber first.)

[pip]

I agree with Anaryl, or more precisely with Lu Xun and Zock (bomber first is not OP per se, but the game would be better if it was nerfed slightly).
Balance discussions here have the only purpose to prevent the chat in the lobby to be monopolized by balance discussions. So this thread is pointless per se (the balance team doesn't express its ideas here nor take ideas from what is discussed here).

But since, a long time ago, Ze_Pilot asked for replays about bombers in a stickied thread, it tends to show that he has a concern about bombers.

So I invite all (top) players to continue to post their "bomber first is OP / not OP" replays in the dedicated thread so that the balance team can judge, with a large pool of replays, if a nerf is better and what nerf would be the most appropriate in the later case.

[ToejamS]

Something else to think about. You can balance this game as you like, remember if its only balanced for the top 20-30, guess how many people will keep playing the ladder. If I loved high, ott micro games, I have starcraft but I like a game where micro, while important is not a deal breaker. Until now.

[Zock]

Its a design decision. The first bomber is the only unit wich forces the opponent to micro to defend against it. With LAbs or other units, the atacker can choose to micro to increase the effectivity, but the defender can just build tanks and choose not to micro but defend against it with a counter unit. A single tank + the engy he should protect may still be killed by microed LABs, but thats not as bad as a vet1 bomber over your base that destroyed a multiple of its costed mass already.

To defend against a microed first bomber, you are forced to micro, and i wouldn't say the engy/aa/scout micro is easier then micro a single bomber. If you don't micro every single unit, the first bomber will most likley give its owner a huge advantage. Even a not microed first bomber against a not microing defender will kill very likley a multiple of its cost.

I don't like games beeing heavily affected or even decided by micro in the first 5 minutes, thats not what FA should be. Especially for people who can't micro perfect this makes a bomber rush a strategy wich can decide the game early with a huge random factor and has nothing to do with strategy anymore.

I posted that already in one of the countless other bomber threads, though.

[pip]

Honestly, I hope you're in the balance team, and if not yet, you should be.
I saw too many of very good posts from you (and by very good I mean : unbiased, based on facts and deep knowledge of the game, to the point, and so on) about a few highly hot topics like mercies and bombers and they are often just ignored :/