ACU Push/Nuke

[Iszh]

Hi, exivo was talking today morning with me in the lobby and we have been discussing what is the reason why cybran is played so less. My first suggestion was, that you feel not good because of this weak acu because the units are fine of cybran. So i thought it could be the upgrades. All other factions can make double upgrades or even three like shield. cybran can reach in 1v1 mostly 1 upgrade, either engi or gun. but then we discussed more and came to the conclusion that this is not the reason.
Then Exivo told me the Key to it. He said "UEF Acu has only to come into range of cybran acu and walk on, he will win." the real reason is the acu pushing forward. After the Acu explosion was reduced to 2500 it was easy for a uef acu to attack permanent till other acus are dead. And there will be no draw punishment for this. In former times it was much more difficult. You could not attack with your acu the enemy acu till he and you are nearly dead and then escape with low life.
Ive played several wonder games 4v4 and 5v5. Always very fast 2 Acus attacked 1 Acu and the game was finished. If the Death nuke would be 4000 like in gpg the result would be a punishment for this behaviour because the nuke will start a chain reaktion when enemy can destroy 1 acu under 4k life. all three acus will die. So it would be more difficult the push with your acus and prevent this easy win. Game would and should be more focussed on winning with tanks not with acu attack.
My suggestion is when balance in the new year goes on maybe to rise the death nuke of acu back to 4000 to avoid "easy kills".

Resumee
Pro:
1.Makes it more easy to play with low life acu 1v1 because enemy can have only draw and not easy win
2.Should make it more difficult for multiple Acu attack
Contra:
1.Easy Draw in 1v1 if you are not attentive

[rootbeer23]

yes, we need the cybran ACU laser not do damage to ACUs. its just too powerful.

anyway. if you are alone against 2 acus, retreat. if your teammate on wonder leaves you alone to die, then you need to balance your teammate. if you cannot spend the attention in the first 4 minutes to avoid a UEF ACU without having a couple of t1 ari to even the odds, dont play cybran or stay out of the danger zone.

[Iszh]

Wonder was just one example and maybe not the best. I dont have a problem with it because i dont play cybran. The better example is 1v1. a uef acu has 2k life more than a cybran acu. He needs to hit the cybran acu just a bit and then run behind him. Thats a free win. The death nuke of 4000 damage would give the cybran a bonus of 2000 life instead of 500 life where the uef acu cannot kill him without beeing killed himself.

--> A uef acu needs to damage a cybran acu only 500 damage at the moment and then keep the same damage on the cybran acu like on his acu. then he will win. This is not fair. the cybran needs to damage the uef acu 4500 damage and then keep the damage up the same. Can you see this .....
If it would be 4000 nuke then it is 2000 vs 6000 . this is only 3 times more and not 9 times more!

[rootbeer23]

well, factions are different and have advantages and disadvantages. you can build a jester and he can not.

[Iszh]

I dont know cant you see the problem? a cybran acu was fair in gpg but with this mini death nuke a uef can just rush him easy away and the cybran has no chance at all in direct fight. Think about this numbers i posted before. only 500 damage and then eual damage to have a win. cybran needs 4500 damage without taking damage and then equal damage to win. DONT YOU THINK THAT THIS IS A BIT MORE THAN FACTION DIVERSITY. this is nearly a free win when players are equal for uef on small maps.

[Softly]

Cybran t1 bots are better. They cost 7% less mass, have 11% more dps, are 9% quicker and only have 10% less health. This is ignoring other abilities like repair. This means it is easier for the cybran player to cause damage to the uef player.

Then consider that whichever player retreats will end up with more bots than the opponent. Yes you give up some map control by doing this, but as cybran your bots are quicker and arrive sooner so that you have to pull back less. Add this to the fact that the UEF bots are slow so this draws out their forces even more.

All round, I think that t1 is the best bit for cybran, even if you include their paper ACU.

As you get up to later tech levels then the stealth ability becomes incredibly powerful for its cost as cybran, it means if you control air then stealth + gun = dominates t1/2/3 units.


Changing the com bomb damage up again would encourage people to go for draws if they think it would help their rating, and lead to games where thats all people aim to do. I think 2500 damage is enough.

[rootbeer23]

build a point defense

[Iszh]

Dont you think thats your own fault if you offer with your unattentive behaviour a draw to a noob because of not paying enough of attention to your acu. the acu should not be the first unit in your battle rows. it is a big engi with a bit of defense!

[CrazedChariot]

I don't play cybran enough to be an expert on this. But i will throw out the opinion that this is all just perception.

Cybran are a solid faction that just needs to be played a bit differently. You have speed and stealth instead of brute power.

Yes, if you go head to head with uef acu you will lose. But its only a 2k hp difference. You shoul raid around him with the faster mantis, then confront him when you have the unit advantage.

Take a look at the map stats. Cybran have the highest win percentage on a number of maps, and are #2 on even more. Ther is only a few maps i could find where they have the lowest (Roanoke being one of them).

Everyone says they are incredibly weak at 5x5 maps, but the stats don't support this theory. They have the highest win % on Theta, Theta 5, moonlight, Hard ffa, Firelight, Joust and Ambush.

In fact it looks like they are quite good on any map that requires raiding (which makes sense due to their speed)

[Softly]

I agree with Crazed, Cybran are pretty good on smaller maps, I would suggest because they have good t1. Its on larger maps with their poor t2/3 that they are at a disadvantage.

I wouldn't call them weaker though, maybe harder to use.