SACU balancing

[-_V_-]

Hey.

Alright, I didn't see any balancing topics , so I will make a new post here.

Ir's regarding the SACUs. I have no intention sayin' that the new balance changed it completely, but those units are clearly too powerful.
Now that people make them more often, it's really obvious that they need to be tweaked!

The major problems I've noticed so far :

- the tele SACU to build energy storages to kill nuke def : you just can't really defend efficiently against that. Killing the energy storage, a volatile structure, and you're fucked anyway.
The storages are anyway built so fast by the SACU that you can't kill the SACU in time before he put enough storages.

This shit is really like sending your commander to snipe things without actually taking any chance, and if you lost the SACU, you don't even care.

possible solution :
- remove tele from SACU (my favourite option)
- make the tele cost MUCH more expensive so that it really stalls your production for a very long time
- remove ability to build energy storage from SACU , and possibly PD

*******************

- Cyb SACU have 19K HP and this underwater is considerable!!! On land it's alright, but underwater... nightmare!

Either you target the navy and get back stabbed by the HARMS built by the SACUs, or you target the SACUs and get demolished by navy.
19k to kill per SACU with torps take too much time. Either way you're doomed and you get double toasted because of the reclaim!

possible solution :
- remove HARMS from capabilities (t1 t2 torp launcher is alright, HARMS are already super powerful, stealth, hp, range, dps)
- create a customized version of the HARMS for the SACUs
- reduce the HP of the SACU underwater

[Ze_PilOt]

Next changes are planned in 2 months.
Build some wall next to your nuke for the time being.

For the other issue, I'm pretty sure it's counterable and way too soon to call it OP.

[pip]

I think the better choice to make teleport not too strong is to apply the same time required for appearing that it takes to prepare the teleport, during which the unit cannot do anything, like 10 seconds.
Also, the explosion of energy storage has always been quite over the top, it could be tuned down to 1000 damages. It still would be very damaging to a base, but would be less powerful to use as an offensive weapon.

As for the Cybran SACU, it always had more HP traditionnally, but since it's very powerful underwater and has a super strong nano upgrade, maybe it can just lose its extra HP and have 15000 like the Aeon one.

HARMS are expensive and can be countered by ground fire of any long range AOE weapons (Destroyers, Cruisers, Missile ships, battleships).
SACU can also counter it. You can use shielded / nano SACU to suck up HARMS damages, reclaim the harms (especially if you have engineer upgrades). Some SACU have intel upgrade to counter stealth. There is a whole new layer of gameplay for every faction with SACU now.
IMO, it's more the difficulty to destroy the SACU without upgrade that is a problem.

[Ze_PilOt]

HARMS are built on surface and can be denied by any unit.

It doesn't matter if there is an SCU underwater if they can't build anything.

[Lu_Xun_17]

Zep is right, i doubt you can say wall is an expensive counter ^^

I think the sacu is really positive concerning the lategame :
-It' now more dynamic (except maybe for harms creep i agree)
-It's an other alternative strat to the all mighty T3 air

[Myxir]

walls aren't a counter for SCUs, they can simply reclaim them
(micro, i know, but it's sometimes worth the effort)

it's possible that they got too high hp now, but we got 2 months to check if that's even true, and what the main problems are

[Bhaal]

scu cost 2k mass + tele upgrade 15k mass.
nuke def cost 7,5k mass.


problem solved.

[Softly]

SCUs are far too powerful for their cost. Even with non cybrans you're getting way more hp per mass than t3 land, plus the extra build power too.

I feel like this is a lost cause though, nobody seems to care since they need their own special building.

[Lyr]

Buff walls IMO

(Also, I told you so)

[rootbeer23]

walls aren't a counter for SCUs, they can simply reclaim them
(micro, i know, but it's sometimes worth the effort)

you can queue up the reclaim order before it even teleports. the wall segments will be reclaimed in no time.
a full envelope of t1 pd on each critical structure is enough to prevent energy storage construction and will kill
the SCU. Given that it is impossible to scout the upgrades on the SCU and their low price will make teleport defense simply mandatory and as such effecticly increases the price on nukes and antinukes by 25% to include the point defense. i think that is ok as it is. Also for the price of 10-15 sniper bots one can secure a significant portion of the base, as these can kill a SCU in one shot. Then also 4 mobile shields for 500 mass could be placed around the nuke defense so that their bubble aligns with the structure, each absorbing almost 2 energy storage explosions.


EDIT: turns out that all 4 shields survive only 1 explosion due to the damage being absorbed by all shields.
Also, it is difficult to defend with point defenses. more than 1 ring is needed to cover all the space on which an energy storage is effective. needless to say that you have to make a template for it, it takes some effort to get it right and not forget a spot. i dont want this.
The only reasonably effective method is to make 4 t1 land factories. but that is not pretty either.