Cybran TML

[CrayzyNath]

I think the split-missles are too strong. One missle can kill a TMD (except Aeon, but thats a different story), no other TML can do something equivalent. If you play against cybran on a small map and he builds a TML you have to build multiple TMD everywhere since single or dual TMD will just get destroyed by the split of a single missle (you need a total of 2 missles to destroy 2 tmd, of course). You need to build groups of at least 3 (i think you can defend with 3 TMD, not sure, though), which is three times the amount of mass you need to counter TML of the other factions. So the cybran TML is by far the most mass-efficient bait in the early stages of the game. You can just 'fake' it: Build, snipe mexes until the enemy reacts with TMD, reclaim it, enjoy the mass-advantage. Or snipe the TMD... until the enemy builds groups of them all over the place.

Yes, I know: Faction diversity. Leave Aeon being the only one to counter Cybran TML effective. I don't want to take away the split at all, hell no! I love this thing about cybran, that their missles can kill TMD themselves. They are a bit more expensive than the others aswell.
But i think you should need at least 2 missles to destroy a TMD, to balance the costs a bit. They would be still more costeffective than the other TML and you would need multiple TMD to counter them, but it would make it a bit easier to react.

I have a few ideas what could be done:
1. Leave it as it is, if everybody thinks, it is ok.
2. Lower the split-dmg so no TMD oneshot.
3. Increase TMD hp.
4. Make the split-missle move slower so the TMD has time to shoot one of them (2 TMD could counter one missle then).
5. Make the split-missle inaccurate so they don't all hit the TMD.

Maybe it's no real issue at all, feel free to teach me.
But I have seen the effectiveness of Cybran TML in quite a few games, almost every time they are used. They turn the favor heavily in the cybrans favor which already have really strong early T2.

I don't have any replays to show it, but I think this won't be necessary since most of the good players know, what I mean. I know you guys are all experienced and have seen this.

And I hope for some constructive feedback and not just: NO! .
Stay nice and objective, please.
Also, I'm just talking about TML, not about cruisemissles in general (MML, comupgrades, cruiser).

[Ato0theJ]

Well, the cybran cruisers and comms don't have missiles, so no need to mention not changing those. I agree, the ability to kill TMD in one shot is an issue.

1. It makes building TMD worth little vs building shields, which shouldn't be the point of TML, so there needs to be a change. (though this is the counter that you will hear the most, sadly for phim a t2 shield is uber expensive and there is no mobile until t3.

2. There would be little effectiveness remaining from the shot if it was too little damage, it HAS to kill t1 mex even after split at the least. Which would leave the three shot doing a total of 600 to 799 damage, not really worth it.

3. Increasing TMD HP is out totally of the question due to that making it harder for all factions to kill it with any unit.

4. Interesting idea, not sure how easy it would be to implement though, likely very hard by what I understand about firing randomness.

5. I think this is the solution and easier to implement than #4. You would still be able to sneak shots in, it would do the same amount of damage to units and shields, but would not punish those who make TMD. It keeps all of the DPS pros and keeps cybran missiles from being 10X better than any others. I'm impartial on whether or not UEF should have to build 3 though since theirs are usually less effective than other faction when not massed.

P.S.
Changing the MML might be necessary too, otherwise players (may be able to) to distract multiple TMD while the TML gets through.

[ColonelSheppard]

well i dont deny that Cybran TML is strong

but it's still costly and has counters:
http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 02,URB2108

i think it's an important factional strength

[Nombringer]

P.S.
Changing the MML might be necessary too, otherwise players (may be able to) to distract multiple TMD while the TML gets through.

No, I agree with some of the other stuff. But this is a great thing to have in the game.

[Voodoo]

I'm also thinking that the tml is too strong. But it's difficult to nerf them. What about we reduce the amount of the missels?

[pip]

I'm also thinking that the tml is too strong. But it's difficult to nerf them. What about we reduce the amount of the missels?

Reducing the number of splitted projectiles would really affect the feature itself, I'm not sure it's the best idea. I believe what makes the splitted missiles OP is the fact that they fly 2 times faster than the parent missile:
Parent missile initial speed = 3, acceleration = 3, max speed = 12
Splitted missile initial speed = 2, acceleration = 15, max speed = 25

That's why the TMD almost never have time to shoot at the splitted missiles.

I believe that reducing the acceleration and max speed of the splitted missiles will make them easier to counter without removing the feature.

[Voodoo]

I'm also thinking that the tml is too strong. But it's difficult to nerf them. What about we reduce the amount of the missels?

Reducing the number of splitted projectiles would really affect the feature itself, I'm not sure it's the best idea. I believe what makes the splitted missiles OP is the fact that they fly 2 times faster than the parent missile:
Parent missile initial speed = 3, acceleration = 3, max speed = 12
Splitted missile initial speed = 2, acceleration = 15, max speed = 25

That's why the TMD almost never have time to shoot at the splitted missiles.

I believe that reducing the acceleration and max speed of the splitted missiles will make them easier to counter without removing the feature.

This is a realy good idea.

[Gyle]

I'm also thinking that the tml is too strong. But it's difficult to nerf them. What about we reduce the amount of the missels?

Reducing the number of splitted projectiles would really affect the feature itself, I'm not sure it's the best idea. I believe what makes the splitted missiles OP is the fact that they fly 2 times faster than the parent missile:
Parent missile initial speed = 3, acceleration = 3, max speed = 12
Splitted missile initial speed = 2, acceleration = 15, max speed = 25

That's why the TMD almost never have time to shoot at the splitted missiles.

I believe that reducing the acceleration and max speed of the splitted missiles will make them easier to counter without removing the feature.

This is a realy good idea.

I concur.

[ToejamS]

Cybran has had this feature for so long and its taken this long to finally say its op??? I put this down to faction diversity. The fact that their acu cant build tml somehow justifies this to my mind. Also lack of mobile shields and no gun+t2 for comm... its all a trade off. But, thats just my opinion.

[Vault54]

Diamond change log:
"Cybran Missile health normalized so that the parent missile has 1 health and the child missiles have 1 health each as well. Fixed wrong maximum speed in child missiles."

Copy this fix from Diamond Mod