Official Red Dawn Mission Complaint

[IceDreamer]

OK, so for the 5th time in a row I have now lost this mission at the T4 Bomber stage, because you now have about 1/5 the time you used to, and it's damned near bloody impossible to get in there fast enough to kill the Bombers. On top of that, you have this bullSHIT mission failure where you have no chance of trying to stop them once in the air, it's just and instant loss. Oh, and there's no timer either, so unless you have constant scouting you have no clue how long is left, and even THEN it's stupidly tough to complete it.

Something needs to be done about this. Either give the Seraphim less buildpower, or give the player a timer, or reduce the bloody absurd amount of static T3 AA on that island which prevents any kind of constant intel being established, and any kind of strat bomber run taking place.

I know I could just build up my forces in stage 1 then rip it apart stage 2 by not completing objective 1 until totally ready, but every time I try and play this through in a legit fashion, you know, ATTACKING, I die. No, I don't die, I get BSed by some dumb objective. Tried it with 1, 2, 3, and 4 players, no banana, they just get even tougher to hit really. Might try mass Nukes at some point, but that's just boring.

[Hawkei]

L2P

It's really easy. If you don't have enough time, you're doing it wrong. By the time you have completed the first objective you could have a reasonable T3 naval force and T3 air force. There are a variety of solutions. Here are some:

1. Build ground T4 in the water (before map expands) and march in. GC or ML.
2. Get some upgraded SCU's, Percivals, or Bricks. Use the fleet positioned just off the outer island to punch through the AA. Then drop your amphibious ground assault force into the water - out of SAM range. (Don't assault the base - Use the open beach on the northern or southern approaches. This is my preferred method.)
3. Go for massive ASF and Gunship spam.
4. Go for ASF spam with Soul Ripper.

The important thing is to ignore the southern base. It is easier and quicker just to fend off the attacking waves and ignore the base. Your T3 ships don't have time to stop and scrap that base - go straight for the primary objective.

[IceDreamer]

Should probably mentioned I'm trying this as UEF. Also, I'm not braindead, it's easy if you do the whole 'Build up before map expands' trick, but so is every mission if you do that. No, this problem appears if you try to play legit, killing the first objective as quickly as possible, pretending you don't know the map will expand. In that case, it just happens waaay too fast, and even when you get there, you have to kill these 45,000 HP near-complete bombers before they take off...

[Hawkei]

Should probably mentioned I'm trying this as UEF. Also, I'm not braindead, it's easy if you do the whole 'Build up before map expands' trick, but so is every mission if you do that. No, this problem appears if you try to play legit, killing the first objective as quickly as possible, pretending you don't know the map will expand. In that case, it just happens waaay too fast, and even when you get there, you have to kill these 45,000 HP near-complete bombers before they take off...

Yes, I've done this mission as UEF. It is a bit harder, but I can do it. I also to play a "legit method". Typically it takes me about 25 minutes to achieve the first objective. Firstly, the order of the day is eco spam. It is similar for Cybran and UEF - but Aeon get a leg-up here because of the rebuild advantage. Get a factory and lots of T1 power (between 12 and 20 + Hydro).

You want to reclaim the T3 mexes first. Because it allows you to get your own mexes in sooner and start upgrading. You shouldn't waste mass reclaiming the Mex wrecks. Build the m.storage so you don't waste any THEN reclaim the mex. Build your own and send it straight to T3. There are two mex sites with no wrecks. Cap these fast and send them to T3. Spend mass as fast as you can and reclaim as much as you need. Also, send some engineers to reclaim wrecks in the sea... I'll assume you know how to eco.

I make and airforce, quantum gates and naval yards. I sometimes also build a land factory and spam Percies.
Airforce = ASF + Broadswords (6:1 ratio) + T2 transports (as required). Torp bombers, Strat bombers and Fighter bombers are also useful - but not essential for my strategy.
Navy = Battleship + Cruiser + Destroyer + Shield Boat + Frigate (1:4:3:2:2 ratio). Mainly as a shore bombardment configuration.
Assault Force = UEF SCU's with (double shield double gun) + Percivals loaded in T2 transports.
Carrier Support = 1 Atlantis

First objective:
1. Construct the fleet and push the firing line past the first island. Using the Battleships and keeping range.
2. When the Assault force is ready, take out the SAM's on the western side for the island - then use about 20 ASF to counter his ASF while you make the drop.
3. Drop 3 upgraded SCU's + any Percivals you have onto the island (North-western area near the lone mex) walk them in and level the base.
4. Bring the fleet into range for fire support. Send in Gunships when the SAM's are down.
5. Use the SCU's to reclaim everything and fortify the island

Second Objective:
1. Transport any additional upgraded SCU's to join the assault force (by now you should have 6 SCU + Percivals)
2. Immediately send the Battle fleet east. Till they are on the coast of the outer island ring. From there the can control the airspace and take out SAMs.
3. As the fleet is approaching this position, they will encounter ASF's and T3 submarines. You can easily tank the damage - but you could consider supporting the fleet with Torp bombers and ASF - But keep them over your fleet. Don't send them into the SAM's. You will need your ASF for the Next phase.
4. Prepare your Assault force in transports and drop them into the water (in the channel to the north of the seraphim naval yards). But outside SAM range. Suppress the enemy ASF with your own ASF... Pull your ASF out when the drop is complete. Expect some losses.
5. Walk the assault force on shore along the north of the island where the bombers are being built. Bypass the land base and go for the bombers and defences.
6. Use the SCU's to fortify. Build Omni, shield and SAM's. Use the fleet to clean out the northern bomber base.

Third Objective:
By now you should have a reserve battle fleet which is pushing to the south, and aerial reinforcements and maybe a second land assault force. You could also have built a forward Atlantis to support your air units. The Third objective is a two pronged attack. Both attacks should be launched simultaneously.

Considering the distance to the North Seraphim Base. I would leave the fleet behind. I would transport the first assault force. My drop zone is the water to the west of his base. Out of SAM range.
1. Clear the sea lane of ASF's, cruisers and submarines using ASF, T3 gunships and Torp bombers.
2. As soon as the drop is made, no further air support is required. Send the Assault force into the Northern Seraphim Base.
3. Send the Gunships and ASFs to protect Princess Burke's base.

For the Western Seraphim Base.
1. Send both Naval fleets to converge on the base.
2. Send the Reserve air-force to control the area.
3. Drop the second ground assault team and attack with Land and/or T3 gunships.
4. Support the action with Naval bombardment.
5. Have some torpedo bombers on standby should he enter the water.

Time to first objective = 25 min
Time to mission completion = 45 min

[SC-Account]

I did all only with UEF combat SACUS, ASF, transports

[Hawkei]

I did all only with UEF combat SACUS, ASF, transports

You could. But that means running a gauntlet of cruisers, SAM's and carriers to make the drops. A very risky thing to be doing. I've done it too. But you need balls of steel to drop SCU's in those conditions.

Much safer to secure the drop zone with fleet, or Air-to-Ground units first.

[IceDreamer]

You built upgraded SCUs. That's not a gameplay decision you would ever make if you didn't know what was coming next, you'd simply get a T2 Navy and push as hard as you could. When I say legit, I mean I try to pretend that the enemy in the north is a normal, Assassination mode enemy who dies when the last target is killed, and try to play as I would against a player. Pushing out ASAP, trying to take ground fast, etc. Yeah, it's not how the missions were designed, but the crucial part is that the other two factions can win like this, and UEF (From what I've seen) cannot.

[stormbeforedawn]

If you want to play vs ai, skirmish. You were never intended to win the campaign in a legit fashion, look at their starting basses You have to out think the situation to win

[FunkOff]

I played this mission one time where the seraphim managed to construct one bombers before me + buddy killed them... it wasn't instant loss, we just shot the stupid thing down with asf.

In regards to strategy... by the time I finish the first objective, I have 2 fleets, the one I used to kill the base and the one comprised of ships built while the base was being destroyed. I send the former north and the latter south. 3-4 shield boats, 3-4 cruisers, 1-2 atlantis and 2-3 bships is all you need for each fleet. Use some atlantis that are idle t base to make T2 torp bombers and T3 asfs. Torp bombers even the odds vs T3 subs, T3 ASF are in case you're too late. With this strategy, I never have trouble winning as uef.

[SC-Account]

Much safer to secure the drop zone with fleet, or Air-to-Ground units first.

And much slower :p