Czar still kills ASF like crazy

[Blackclaws]

I was quite happy about the changelog when I read that Czar had that stupid thing removed where they instakill all ASFs with their beam..

However it just happened again =/ twice ... and it pretty much dealt us a big blow.

Replay is attached. I think that needs to definitely be nerfed even more...

[Aulex]

It's at the 1 hour 5 minute mark

[IceDreamer]

You should still be making every effort to avoid allowing your ASFs to fly through the Beam in the first place. The fact that they get roasted is not a problem, it's the fact that they fly there in the first place which is wrong. Unfortunately we have no idea how to fix it. When/If we ever do, the Damage resistance will be removed.

I think I see the problem though. I don't think Pip took the AOE into effect when he made the armour. If it's a single ASF, or a few, it will escape the beam with only 600 Damage or so. However, with a whole stream of them, whenever one is hit a whole bunch in front and behind are too... If it is decided we REALLY don't want this to be happening, happily the Armour is a very, very simple change to make, say, 99% resistant. It's just one number.

[pip]

It's at the 30 seconds mark.

[IceDreamer]

Yeah, OK Pip, now try that test again but with a sensible number of ASFs and about the same runup. Try... 100 ASF. Bet you the outcome is different.

They raise a legitimate concern. I wrote my previous before watching that replay, but having now seen it, he did indeed lose about 100 ASF in one pass to the beam. My assumption about AOE being the cause is also correct.

[pip]

If the ASF are damaged, it's not the Czar beam which killed them, but the AA weapons and other ASF, the beam just finished them off after lot of previous damages. The Beam deals around 600 damages to ASF only, if it can kill them with the laser and its 4 AOE, it can also kill them with its dual AOE weapon that deals 1920 AA DPS.
In my replay, only 2 ASF are killed by the Czar, when before it would have killed them all in one second. If ASF could attack a Czar and remain unscathed, it would be a Soul Ripper, and not a Flying Fortress.

[IceDreamer]

It was the beam

Repeat your test with a much denser number of ASF and I'm telling you the difference will be profound. It's the fact that one plane is only damaged by the beam for perhaps 3 ticks (200-ish Damage), but in a dense blob, each ASF is being hit for much, MUCH longer, closer to 2 full seconds, which, even with 75% resistance, is 1600 Damage or so.

I don't expect you to watch that bloody replay through like I did, but I'm telling you, he lost over 100 ASF from full HP in one pass to that Czar, and the front and rear couple made it out only half damaged, supporting my theory.

EDIT - Can't replicate the instant death myself but that doesn't change what happened in this guy's game. With 150 UEF ASF they kill the Czar before reaching the Beam. With 100, they take considerable Damage, but only about 50%. His all died in one pass. No ASF in range and ASF were at full HP.

[pip]

If a blob of 100 ASF take first 2 times 480 damages from AOE flak AA weapon = 960 + 3 ticks of beam, it can finish them off. But a second hit of the flaak AA weapon will do it all the same. Don't attack a AOE unit with a blob, like attacking mobile flaks with a blob of gunships, they will all die. That's all.

[ColonelSheppard]

Blackclaw:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1mNG-5J6ww

[FunkOff]

That video is basically perfect. Asf shouldnt even be resistant to czar beam... just attack czar intelligently