Ladder map pool rotation

[Mad`Mozart]

First of all, im only making this thread cause of this Zep's post:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7478&p=74222#p74214

So, we had our ladder system nice and running for quite a while now but many players became frustrated with the map pool.
They had their reasons: simply not liking the map, thinking it is imbalanced, not suitable for ladder, etc. And i think its about time we should form a map pool team to take care of situation, make it better and introduce ladder seasons back (and well, it will also be one thing less for Zep to care about).

Second of all, this team will need to be able to actually handle the map pool itself. So i guess we need Zep's word here, if he says no then everything below is meaningless.

Spoiler: show

Forming a team
I imagine it will consist of X people responsible for map rotation and 1 person familiar with map editing tools to fix spawning points and some map related bugs (like that one on Haven Reef)
I see 2 options here.
People volunteer for the map team untill its enough. They obviously must be playing ladder and have some experience so their opinion will be trustworthy, and we will probably need some authority to decide if that person can qualify (Voodoo? or maybe other mods)
Option 1: map team will be picked entirely in each season same way. Option 2: at the end of each season current members decide if they wanna stay, inactive members or those who are leaving will be replaced with new members.


How it will work
After forming a team, first task will be to clear current map pool from unwanted maps by putting them on vote. Maybe rounding it to a number of 80 (currently there 89 maps in pool). After that, only changes allowed will be season map rotation.

Ladder will have same 4 seasons as we have it in real life. At the last week of each season voting will occur.
I was thinking of rotating 25% of map pool each season. Limit it to 80 maps strict, so it will be 20 maps each time.
For that, map team should consist of 10 people who must ban and pick 2 maps each. No voting, no nothing, just (one person banning and picking 2 maps)x10


Some rules
- Cant pick a map that was banned last season.
- Cant ban a map that was picked last season.
- There cant be more than 25 or less than 15 5km/20km maps in the pool.
- During voting period, if people picked/banned maps and its breaking above rule, all contested maps will be voted by team members to decide which one stays/leaves.
- During voting period, each team member can freely pick any map that was on the ladder before. If picked map hadnt been there, it can be vetoed by other team members with (5 or 6?) votes meaning it must be changed.
- Probably need to make a list of all valid/broken/vetoed maps as well.

[Iszh]

If people would select 50 Maps or more they would not have the problem. The system of zep works as i understood better as a voting system ont a favorite system. Because it is trying to get 15 maps in common of both players. If they dont have 15 Maps in common random maps will be added. So guess what will happen if you dont like 10 maps and simply chose all other and all other players will do the same. You will always have 15 maps in common at least and no random shit will be added.

So i would say it is the fault of people not of the map pool. Unfortunately i lost the post about the 1v1 matchmaker how it works.

[Mad`Mozart]

If people would select 50 Maps or more they would not have the problem. ....

Lol you dont understand the point of this thread. Maybe should actually read it?

[Ze_PilOt]

Or we can say that it was already done before and didn't worked, that's why we've switched to another system?

People will cry over maps whatever you do. At least with the current system, they have a slight chance to get the map they like but no one is.

But in most cases, people get a map from the 15 most selected maps. So guess what, that's your system implemented with a permanent vote.

If you like a map that everybody else hates (and it happens for every map), if you have it, you are happy, but your enemy will cry. That "problem" will be amplified with the previous system you recommend.

And I fail to see how it will make me care less about it. The current system is. The previous one wasn't.

It's more work to create a team, change the maps every x weeks, and of course, managing the inherent whining before ("the way the team is formed is not fair", "I'm not in it so it sucks" "the voting is biased", ..), during it ("they are only top players!" "they are average players!" "they are playing cybran so they favorite it!", ...) and after ("these maps suck", please put my awesome map in it", "last season was good why change it??", "there are too many maps", "there are not enough maps", "too many big ones", "too many small ones", ...).

Actually, just thinking of it makes me sick, so, no, I won't change the system whatever you will say.

Also, I should point out that selecting all the maps is stupid. You have 100% chances of having a map your enemy like.

Again, you don't get "a random map". You can get a map you have both selected, a small chance to get a map you or he likes (what you call "random map" probably, but actually the map one of you like and makes him/you happy), or a map from the top 15 (most likely if you select nothing).

So right now it's the fairest way to get a map pool (every body vote all the time), and as it's dynamic, it's 0 maintenance work.

[Iszh]

Agree but please can somebody link me again where i can find the explanation of the matchmaker system?

[Ze_PilOt]

Agree but please can somebody link me again where i can find the explanation of the matchmaker system?

You don't really don't need too.
You are over-thinking it.
Select the maps you like, doesn't matter how much.
It won't increase or decrease your chances to have them (of course, the more you have, the more chances you have to get one, but it's unrelated to the decision process done by the server).

[Mad`Mozart]

Or we can say that it was already done before and didn't worked, that's why we switch to another system?

Im not arguing about automatch system, just want some fresh maps in the pool with same system.

People will cry over maps whatever you do. At least with the current system, they have a slight chance to get the map they like but no one is.

At least they wont cry and blame you.

But in most cases, people get a map from the 15 most selected maps. So guess what, that's your system implemented with a permanent vote.

Well, there still will be 15 most selected maps, but different each season. Cant see why would simple map rotation hurt? Especially when you personally dont have to bother about it.

And guess what, if you like a map that everybody else, you will have it and cry. That will "problem" will be amplified with the previous system you recommend.

This line is a complete mistery to me

[Ze_PilOt]

At least they wont cry and blame you.

Of course they will. I don't know in what world you live, but it's always the fault of the one on the top in ours.

This line is a complete mistery to me

If you remove a map someone like or introduce a map someone does not, whining will occurs. And these whining periods will occurs periodically.
Change is bad for my peace of mind.

Actually, some maps are added time to time if you've noticed, but no map will be removed unless it's broken.

[Mad`Mozart]

Of course they will. I don't know in what world you live, but it's always the fault of the one on the top in ours.

But you said yourself that you stopped supporting FAF = you dont care anymore.
So can you at least people that still care manage existing features? It wont change anything for you since you dont care anymore.

[Ze_PilOt]

And yet you are asking to change the maps every x weeks.

I could put the top 10 selected maps as the only ones the ladder will take, while keeping the constant voting system. That's all I'm willing to do.

Here is the top 10 according to the selections of the 1v1 users:

Canis River
Finn's Revenge
Fields of Isis
Blasted Rock
Winter Duel
Balvery Mountains V2
Ambush Pass
8 - Badlands_v4
Crag Dunes
Twin Rivers