Tech 2 Amphibious Tanks

[qai]

3626 beta Changelog

- Blaze speed to 4 (from 3.7)
- Yenzyne speed to 4 (from 3.7)

[qai]

- Wagner speed 3.7
- Riptide speed 3.7

Hover Tank Comparison

Cybran and UEF hovertanks speed unchanged?
So if send my hover tank army to x place to kill/defend acu, i get there faster with aeon and seraphim but not with cybran and uef.

[Ze_PilOt]

- Wagner speed 3.7
- Riptide speed 3.7

Hover Tank Comparison

Cybran and UEF hovertanks speed unchanged?
So if send my hover tank army to x place to kill/defend acu, i get there faster with aeon and seraphim but not with cybran and uef.

I've already answered to you : viewtopic.php?f=57&t=4121

I can take a faction numbers and copy paste them for all others. That would be dumb, no ?
These tanks were buffed because sera & aeon doesn't have ranged bots. UEF & cybran have, so they don't need more speed to catch themselves.

You can call that faction diversity or whatever you want, but it's just balancing the units toward how the factions are actually played, not how similar their units are.

[Nombringer]

Also not sure if this should be in this thread, so please move if this is case.

Now here is something I have been meaning to bring up for a while, cybran T2 land.

At the moment as a cybran, you have three options: Rangebots, wagners, or rhino's.

This was not intended, and it should not be this way.

I want to propose changes that will lead to the cybrans not having the option to use the wagner as an effective t1 killer. Instead I would like to have torpedo's that are actually mildly effective, making it effective when used in conjunction with navy. To nerf its capabilities to counter tech one land, I suggest we keep the DPS the same, or increase it, but make it massively front loaded, simliar to the obsidian, we should also reduce the speed to the slowest or the tech two tanks, and decrease the range.

This way it can fufill a role in naval play ( a strength of the cybran faction) and mean that the cybrans do not have superfluous units on land. My only concern is the possibility of making the torpedo's TOO good, and making cybran unbeatable in the early stages of navy. If this happens, another idea could be to add anti-torpedo capabilties to them, and use them as a hard counter to sub spam in large numbers.
The rhino MAY be to be buffed accordingly, maybe a range or ROF increase?

I want to know opinions on this, and if anybody has some specific numbers to propose.

[Ze_PilOt]

This was not intended, and it should not be this way.

You are right, but it's not inside the scope of this patch (it's big enough already).

[Nombringer]

This was not intended, and it should not be this way.

You are right, but it's not inside the scope of this patch (it's big enough already).

Fair enough. Shall I save this and bring it up next patch?

[Ze_PilOt]

This was not intended, and it should not be this way.

You are right, but it's not inside the scope of this patch (it's big enough already).

Fair enough. Shall I save this and bring it up next patch?

Yeps.

[qai]

...Cybran and UEF hovertanks speed unchanged?
So if send my hover tank army to x place to kill/defend acu, i get there faster with aeon and seraphim but not with cybran and uef...

I've already answered to you : viewtopic.php?f=57&t=4121

I can take a faction numbers and copy paste them for all others. That would be dumb, no ?
These tanks were buffed because sera & aeon doesn't have ranged bots. UEF & cybran have, so they don't need more speed to catch themselves.

You can call that faction diversity or whatever you want, but it's just balancing the units toward how the factions are actually played, not how similar their units are.

"I can take a faction numbers and copy paste them for all others. That would be dumb, no?" i agree
but tech2 bots cant go on water. how cybran/uef(speed 3.7) catch up to aeon/seraphim(speed 4.0) hovertanks on land/sea?
also with speed 4 they go almost fast as ships which is silly((tech2 Cruiser speed 4.5)warships made actually to travel in water)

[pip]

You are mistaken : Cybran doesn't have 3 choices at t2, but 2 : Hoplites and Wagners. Rhinos are outclassed in every possible way by Wagners. In engy mod, the top players never ever build a single rhino, they only build Hoplites and Wagners.

I posted Zock's idea in a list for the GWW beta to fix that situation : switch stats between Rhino and wagners so that Rhino is truly the heavy tank and wagner the fast and less armored tank. I guess it didn't make it in the patch so far because Zep focuses on engy mod integration and Aeon buff, but IMO, it's a part of balancing engy mod, because engy mod makes rhino even more useless by making wagners easier to produce.

Here are the stats :
Cybran rework : Rhino and Wagner roles switched (Rhino = heavy tank, Wagner = fast tank).
- Wagner : 1150 HP, 50 DPS, 5 torpedo DPS (from 3). Same veterancy and cost as previous Rhino. Speed = 4 (from 3.7), same as Blaze and Yenzine
- Rhino : 1450 HP, 100 DPS, turret turn speed = 120 (from 90). Same veterancy and cost as previous Wagner. Speed is not touched.

I attach the modified bp in case Zep wants to give them a try, along with the files to change the rhino and cerberus fx, as it seems some people are not happy with it being the same as the mantis fx.

EDIT : I edited my file because Wagner has 100 DPS so the Rhino with stats and costs of Wagner should have 100 DPS too.

[Nombringer]

You are mistaken : Cybran doesn't have 3 choices at t2, but 2 : Hoplites and Wagners. Rhinos are outclassed in every possible way by Wagners. In engy mod, the top players never ever build a single rhino, they only build Hoplites and Wagners.

I posted Zock's idea in a list for the GWW beta to fix that situation : switch stats between Rhino and wagners so that Rhino is truly the heavy tank and wagner the fast and less armored tank. I guess it didn't make it in the patch so far because Zep focuses on engy mod integration and Aeon buff, but IMO, it's a part of balancing engy mod, because engy mod makes rhino even more useless by making wagners easier to produce.

Here are the stats :
Cybran rework : Rhino and Wagner roles switched (Rhino = heavy tank, Wagner = fast tank).
- Wagner : 1150 HP, 50 DPS, 5 torpedo DPS (from 3). Same veterancy and cost as previous Rhino. Speed = 4 (from 3.7), same as Blaze and Yenzine
- Rhino : 1450 HP, 88 DPS, turret turn speed = 120 (from 90). Same veterancy and cost as previous Wagner. Speed is not touched.

I attach the modified bp in case Zep wants to give them a try, along with the files to change the rhino and cerberus fx, as it seems some people are not happy with it being the same as the mantis fx.

I agree with this but the point is that making one superfluous does not solve the problem. The wagner needs its own nieche.