Summit Summation

[IceDreamer]

Tick the mass up to 10K, DPS to 420 (As much lower as Omen is higher), this is where I'd begin.

Personally I don't think nerfing turnrates is going to do much, it's so slow already.

Proposal: Drain E to fire? Coupled with Shield Boats, this adds to the E burden of supporting late-game UEF Navy, and could result in players with poorly managed ecos having their shielding go offline when they fire a large salvo, which allows retaliatory punishment and for the enemy to get back into the navy game if they spot this poor play.

[Iszh]

Since battleships are in general some kind of gameender. I also like the idea of e usage for the guns. But that needs to bea serious e Ammount not only a joke. 1k e for a uef gun and 500-800 for other battleship guns. Then an Uef Battleships needs arround 3k more mass in t3 pgens to be supported. That maybe also increases the power of t2 ships again. But dont forget about battlecruiser beam then because it would be to strong if it is not changed.

Another bonus would be the improving of exp battleship and rocket ship and nuke subs since they will stay without e cost

[zeroAPM]

Tick the mass up to 10K, DPS to 420 (As much lower as Omen is higher), this is where I'd begin.

Personally I don't think nerfing turnrates is going to do much, it's so slow already.

Proposal: Drain E to fire? Coupled with Shield Boats, this adds to the E burden of supporting late-game UEF Navy, and could result in players with poorly managed ecos having their shielding go offline when they fire a large salvo, which allows retaliatory punishment and for the enemy to get back into the navy game if they spot this poor play.

In that case then add it to other battleships too, not just the UEF.

Let me remind you that the whole shtick of the UEF is "Hope you survive till T3 and then you can start pushing back", if we nerf all of it's T3 then we'll have a faction that is objectively worse than all the others.

[Iszh]

Torrent was an effective anti naval weapon with 100m radius splash. It was extremely nerfed and has no use atm since nuke subs have 1km more range. I dont play aeon but i vote for reducing the mass cost of it and increase start speed of rockets a lot which is the most slow atm and turning only over 4km maximum range in the most fast rockets in game.

About BS E usage we should think very detailed how it can influence the gameplay. Maximal effect is that Battleships will be not spammed but used in limited ammount and all factions are forced to use t2 in big ammounts even in endgame. Looks in fact nice on the first view but the battlecruiser has to be adapted to this not to be op. To change the values of it would make it either useless or op. So i think the way here must be the same and add e cost for recharching gun like 500e for each gun. I think thats all t3 ships which need an e cost.

Now lets ask gala about this he will curse us

My proposal is e usage for every single gun:
Summit - 1000e ----> 3000 max
Galaxy - 800e ----> 1600 max
Huthuum - 500e ----> 1500 max
Omen - 300e ----> 900 max
Neptune - 500e ----> 1000 max

Now thinking objektive about the good idea. It will slow down the first numbers of ships with higher e usage more since you need to establish the e first together with the ships. But once you reached a decent e level and the first ships are sinking, there will be no effect anymore and uef will again be unstoppable on long term.
Not sure if thats really the intended effect. But thinking about it in general, if the highest weapon of a tech level water, land or air air not equal they will not be equal until we make them equal

Cybran battleship is the highest possible weapon for cybran in water, it cant fight a summit. E cost will not change this and nothing will change it until we make them equal on this or that way which means increasing dps, mass cost, built time or range or life. Same for harbs/koloss and percivals. With air it was obviously so critical the balance that the developers even in gpg times already made them 100% equal with marginal difference. To slow down the uef domination would help but not solve the problem
I think thats a case like asf. For 3 of 4 factions is battleships the maximum weapon over water and thats the same type of unit. Aeon you can balance like Harb/koloss vs percival different. So if you want to balance you need to change the main values of those battleships which is a big deal in balance.
-> Let the people in balancepatch do this

[=M.V.K.=]

What say Speed in moving?? Rates and the like..??

[zeroAPM]

Cybran battleship is the highest possible weapon for cybran in water, it cant fight a summit.

That's why you abuse stealth T3 bombers, HARMS, SACUs with stealth and rapid fabricator for HARM creep and reclaiming enemy units and the outrageously good T1 and T2 navy you have BEFORE the UEF can get to T3.

Seriously, isn't it kinda obvious? Cyb=strong early game and weak late game, UEF=strong late game and weak early game
Keep pushing like this and we'll have Cyb=strong early game and average late game, UEF=average late game and weak early game

[pza]

I don't know what your rating is/ how good you are but I've never heard of you... sometimes you just have to trust someone who has some more experience...

"dunno how good you are, but, ffs, i'm better."
- brian

[zeroAPM]

the issue is that it is so ridiculously strong that there is no reason to build any other navy during the late game

Please, consider the amount of players that use UEF at all.
Then count the win/loss ratio.
Then count the average rating.

You'll rapidly notice that most people play Cybran and UEF is the least played (and least winning) of all.

The only shtick of the UEF is being really good at late game but struggling in the early game, note that the early game either breaks or makes the whole match (unless we're talking about chockepoint maps).

If we nerf the UEF t3 too much then there will be no reason to play it at all except if one likes blocky ahestetic (unless your nickname is Blackheart, in that case you could beat everyone using only T1 scouts, blindfolded and with no audio).

[burnstreet]

You know who else supports Summit nerf? Name any 2k+ player you've ever heard of in your life (including BH)

I believe it when they post that themselves

[IceDreamer]

The issue is not that UEF is strong, the issue is that it is so ridiculously strong that there is no reason to build any other navy during the late game... I don't know what your rating is/ how good you are but I've never heard of you... sometimes you just have to trust someone who has some more experience...

The question is how do we nerf UEF navy, not if.

This isn't true...

It's rare to see it actually DONE, but the Cybran Navy is, in fact, by FAR the strongest in the late-game. The fact they can Stealth their Navy is utterly, ridiculously OP when used right; an enemy UEF Navy LITERALLY cannot fire back. Summit range is utterly pointless when it's outranged by Salems!!!!!

There is no Omni at sea, and no way to have true permanent optics because of ASFs or Cruisers. One glitch in your Spy swarm and you're blind again.