Nerf / Eliminate RAS option for SACUs

[Derek]

The obvious: This is the go to, late-game eco play these days. Compared to standing armies fighting over the map for mass point control, the risk/reward ratio leads the sensible commander down the T3 arties / game-ender path. There is much less reason to field an army if you can just turtle up and make these bastards.

The problem: Accentuated by the 80% reclaim left on the field by dead units, which already disincentivizes any risky offensive move, these SACUs make it even less important to control mass points across the map. Turtling is effective enough as it is and reducing the importance of map control leads to boring gameplay.

Suggested change: I would completely remove the SACU RAS option. Keep it ACU-only. Some kind of nerf would be a reluctant second option.

Please discuss.

EarthRover-

#mapcontrolmatters

#minute40masspointsmatter

[speed2]

I would suggest playing a map where you need map control and not just sit in your base and turtle. Thats the main issue here.

[FtXCommando]

You got any idea how long it takes a ras boy to pay off its initial investment?

[Deribus]

You got any idea how long it takes a ras boy to pay off its initial investment?

For the record, mass wise, it's exactly 10 minutes.

Compare this to a T3 fab + PGen combo which pays for itself 2 and a half minutes faster.

[Azraeel]

i hate it when people spam ras sacus
its so retarded. They take literally 10 MINUTES TO PAY OFF. BRUH I'd building some fucking t3 fabs spread out everywhere before fucking ras sacus i swear.

Greatest arguement, well they have BP and Rss generation.....

[Azraeel]

imma only build ras sacus when i need too, not just cause i can.

Theres these things called Rambo Sacus and engineer preset, but i guess people need there ras sacus cause they cant eco

People making ras sacus on t2 mex nowadays

[RedX]

i hate it when people spam ras sacus
its so retarded. They take literally 10 MINUTES TO PAY OFF. BRUH I'd building some fucking t3 fabs spread out everywhere before fucking ras sacus i swear.

Greatest arguement, well they have BP and Rss generation.....

But your T3 fabs die to a single strat or arty, unless you spend a ton of mass and energy building shields everywhere. They also don't have any build power and don't move. RAS SCU has the advantage in all of these things. They can be stacked under a single cluster of shields making them almost unkillable, they don't take up space, they double as engineers, and they kill drops or tele. They're also power positive instead of power negative, saving you mass there.

Yes, they're inefficient compared to fabs, but I would argue that their intangible advantages are too quickly dismissed by those that look solely at mass efficiency.

[Endranii]

If your mass fabs can be strated/tml'ed w/e then you have bigger problems than thinking about Ras lads.
Also why the f*** enemy have arty but you are stuck with fucking mass fabs and ras lads?

[Derek]

Good points and discussion all around.

I would just like to point out that I almost never see T3 mass fabs and I am constantly seeing RAS SACUs. Granted, speed2, it's not on maps that promote healthy skirmishing and have turtle friendly geography (ex.DualGap). Nonetheless, sometimes it is on open maps and the biggest proof of all is I am seeing it used by pro players.

A recent example is Shinobu (and others) on Canis (Gyle):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fku-8G2P2Ag

Versatility is key in FAF, and an SACU is the most versatile unit in the game. 10 minutes isn't that long to pay down a unit that can build anything, take a hit, and is providing a big discount on whatever it's building.

Is the real issue that we want enough late game build power so we can get some game-enders out and decide a winner so we can get on to the next game?

[FtXCommando]

Yudi shits around in a game full of dudes that don't know how to play the game. Crushes with boys. Clearly the problem here is that boys are OP.

Also imagine calling canis an open map.